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VP debate last night.

Geoffchef's picture

Of the four men I have now seen debating, the least impressive was George Bush. By a landslide. Cheney's a tough nut and Edwards is smart as a whip.

 


 


The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.


-Robert W. Service

 

ADAM'S APPLE, n.
A protuberance in the throat of man, thoughtfully provided by Nature to keep the rope in place.
Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

 

MadMom's picture

(post #42756, reply #92 of 109)

Very interesting.  IMNSHO, an excellent speech.  Hope Kerry's speechwriters pay attention.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
Lily Tomlin

Wolvie's picture

(post #42756, reply #93 of 109)

ummm - you don't think maybe Mr Shut Up was playing to the audience? Maybe get some folks to watch his show?


Admittedly, I didn't see the show... but... he does know how to play the cameras.


FWIW, I do like Jon Stewart. But then, I like Bill Maher, too. ;-)



"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."


George W. Bush


"Through pride we are ever deceiving ourselves. But deep down below the surface of the average conscience a still, small voice says to us, 'Something is out of tune."  Carl Jung

 

Ballottine's picture

(post #42756, reply #94 of 109)

O'Reily "became" UNDECIDED since he started peddling  a children's book he has written.  Bal

 


So much to cook; so little time.

 

So much to cook; so little time.

Wolvie's picture

(post #42756, reply #95 of 109)

ahhh. Thanks for the info - obviously, I don't pay attention to him. :-)


"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."


George W. Bush


"Through pride we are ever deceiving ourselves. But deep down below the surface of the average conscience a still, small voice says to us, 'Something is out of tune."  Carl Jung

 

Ballottine's picture

(post #42756, reply #96 of 109)

I don't watch FOX and I've never heard O'Riley  speak until he started making his rounds on the morning shows peddling  a book he has just written for children.  Wolf pretending to be a lamb.  Anything for a buck. Bal

 


So much to cook; so little time.

 

So much to cook; so little time.

MadMom's picture

(post #42756, reply #97 of 109)

ITA - I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but it was interesting to hear him trying to be "fair and balanced." 


Anyone else watch the presidential debates last night?  Even Fox News, that bastion of the religious right, said that according to their poll, 15% said they were tied, 15% thought Bush won, and 60% thought Kerry won.  I can only hope the debates are making some difference with the undecided voters.


Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
Lily Tomlin

Ballottine's picture

(post #42756, reply #98 of 109)

I watched the debate.  Bush's face "behaved" better than  the first time.


I also watched several shows afterwards.  Had I been totally undecided I would have switched to Kerry's camp immediately after watching for the first  time Karen Hughes describe  the debate as" total victory for Bush,"  but she did it on every channel I tuned into.  Not a smart move for a woman who is supposed to be smart.


That woman drives me nuts.  I don't know much about her, but refuse to buy her book.  Will wait till I can get it from the library if, GF, Bush winns.  Bal


 


So much to cook; so little time.

 

So much to cook; so little time.

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #42756, reply #99 of 109)

I watched the debate - very interesting, and in my opinion, even more telling than the first. I thought Kerry performed very well - and Bush, well, Bush performed.


The questions were great - straight and to the point. Kerry impressed me by not talking down to the audience, and by actually getting into details, and not pretending that complex issues can be answered by 30 second sound bytes. He was obviously very well prepared beforehand - one little factoid that blew me away was that if Missouri were a nation, Missourians would be the third largest force in Iraq - right after the US and Britain.


I especially respected his answer to the abortion question - that he's Catholic, and as such has serious moral issues, but also that he doesn't have the right to impose his faith, and his beliefs on the rest of the world. What a concept, eh??!!




Higglety Pigglety Pop!


"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."


President Dwight Eisenhower


http://costofwar.com/

Biscuits's picture

(post #42756, reply #100 of 109)

I watched it, and frankly, I'm shocked so many people think Kerry won.  Happy, but shocked.  I really would have said it was a draw.  Bush performed much better this time.  IMO - and it's only a very biased opinion - he came across way too certain for my taste.  I can't stand and don't trust people who are so wrapped up in their own moral certainty.  But I know a lot of people take that moral certainty for strength, so I was surprised he didn't do better in the polls.


The one point that I thought Bush did appallingly on was when the lady asked him to give three instances of mistakes he had made during his administration, and he (a) said any mistakes he made were minor, like appointments to jobs, and (b) then told her that what she was really asking was did he make a mistake with Iraq, and he did not.  I HATE when you ask a question and someone turns it around and says, "What you are really asking is this..."  No, you idiot.  If that was really what I was asking I would have asked that! 


What that lady was really asking, trying to find out, was if GWB believes that he is always right no matter what, or if he actually realizes he's made some mistakes and is willing to own up to them.  Apparently, he is not willing to admit to any, and I think that was a bad move on his part.  He had a good opportunity with that question to show a little human fallibility, a little less arrogant certainty, and he didn't do it.


As for Kerry, these debates have certainly shown me that the man actually thinks about positions and realizes that no situation is black and white, so there are no black-and-white answers.  Personally, I like that.  I'm uncomfortable with people who live in a right-or-wrong world.  I don't believe it works that way.


I don't know.  I think this race is going to split us right down the middle again on the popular vote.  Electoral votes I have no idea.  I think electoral votes are stupid anyway.  I really believe that we should decide the President on popular vote - but again, JMHO.


Life is tough - but it's tougher when you're stupid - Major Jeffrey F. Richardson, USMC

Ancora Imparo -

Ballottine's picture

(post #42756, reply #101 of 109)

Totally agree with you. Bal


 


So much to cook; so little time.

 

So much to cook; so little time.

KarenP's picture

(post #42756, reply #102 of 109)

  I've watched both debates with the same two people. We've thought Kerry won them both but could see where someone could call last night a draw.  
  Did you notice the faces of the people in the audience as the evening went on and watch how they moved around when it was over?  I found that part fascinating...particularily a woman sitting in the corner holding her head when Dubya started to speak toward the end like "here we go again". 
   CNN did a town meeting format with about a dozen people.  At the end, the majority of them said that they had indeed made up their mind. One woman when asked point blank said that she indeed had been swayed to the bush side.  She was not asked why.


Edited 10/9/2004 3:02 pm ET by KarenP

Ballottine's picture

(post #42756, reply #103 of 109)

Yes, I saw that, and you right, NO ONE asked her why.


It seemed to me that most people sat stonefaced most of the time, perhaps, they were instructed to do so.


MSNBC had a group of people who watched the debate together and  they polled  them right after the debate and 69% of them said Kerry won.


Kerry and Bush had the same debate professor at Yale, but  since Bush was a  "C student " I expected more of  Kerry. Bal


 


So much to cook; so little time.

 

So much to cook; so little time.

MadMom's picture

(post #42756, reply #104 of 109)

I thought Kerry did better during the first debate, but also thought he won them both.  Bush was totally confused during the first debate (might have been all the "hard work" he kept referring to.)  DD and I were talking about the debates, and we agreed that if someone says they are for Bush because of his stand on abortion, for example, and if that is a major issue with them, it's understandable.  If someone says they're for him because he has done a good job, then I'm sorry, they haven't been paying attention.  And if I hear "stay the course" and "don't change horses in the middle of the stream" as an excuse for keeping an incompetent in the White House, I think I'll gag.   If you're riding a lame horse, it's time to change nags.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
Lily Tomlin

JoanneB17's picture

(post #42756, reply #105 of 109)

I was dumbfounded at his folksy, glib answer to the question about the Supreme Court--first that "I'm not gonna tell" or something like that and second that "Besides, I want them to vote for me!" Laugh. gave me cold chills, considering what the Supreme Court did in November, 2004. And to focus on the Pledge of Allegiance as an example of what makes a good judge. Please deliver us from this blindered, do-no-wrong guy.

MadMom's picture

(post #42756, reply #107 of 109)

I also was astounded at his citing the Dred Scott case as one where judges misinterpreted the constitution by considering slaves as personal property (he stated that he would not appoint a judge who would make such a ruling, but rather one who would strictly follow the constitution.)  Until the thirteenth amendment was passed, slaves were considered personal property, under Article IV, Section 2.  For the President of the United States to show such appalling ignorance of the document which establishes our form of government is unbelievable.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
Lily Tomlin

JoanneB17's picture

(post #42756, reply #108 of 109)

Very good point. Perhaps he was saying they should have ruled from their hearts (place hand on heart) over the Constitution (knock head, as in "you know how liberals think").

Do you suppose this was a talking point given to him during rehearsals and he thought it sounded good but didn't know the background? Throw in a little smarts, he thought. He did use the word "nexus" and I groaned when Kerry said "Orwellian."

Lword's picture

(post #42756, reply #106 of 109)

>I'm shocked so many people think Kerry won.  Happy, but shocked.  I really would have said it was a draw.  Bush performed much better this time.  IMO - and it's only a very biased opinion - he came across way too certain for my taste.


Yep, agree on those and all other accounts. I think Kerry had a small margin because he didn't seem so excitable and had a good mix of basic facts and some background, and Bush's certainty is troubling because some of the things he's certain about are simply not true. One little one I heard this morning is that he reported something like $84 earnings from holdings in a timber industry, but last night restated the claim by saying he didn't know he owned a timber industry. A lie because he knows darn well he doesn't "own" a timber industry and also knows he has interest in at least one that generated income for him. Probably tax free.


Did anyone catch Sen. and Mrs. Edwards on The View? Boy did Elisabeth look frosted and Sen. E said something like "I noticed" lol! Her question or comment was something about the effect of being in the public eye on the kids and Mrs. E quickly pointed out that she would have the same concerns as Elisabeth, who is pregnant and in the public eye.


One NPR commentator said that Bush seemed to do better than expected in this particular "town hall" setting than in the other and might regret the limitation on this format.


What I'd love to see is a realtime "liar" button, and "weasel" one. I'd also love to see an actual debate.  


L.
L.
"If you can't feed a hundred people, then feed just one." Mother Teresa
Gretchen's picture

(post #42756, reply #109 of 109)

ITA - I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but it was interesting to hear him trying to be "fair and balanced." 


He is a snake..If he is a guest on a show I HAVE to turn it off. I cannot abide him.  Heard a great interview the other day with Terry Gross about her new book of her 30 most memorable interviews.  He--O'Reilly--was truly crass and rude after she had interviewed him--and apparently skewered him good.


Gretchen
Gretchen
AnnL's picture

(post #42756, reply #90 of 109)

Wonderful! 


I'm looking forward to tonight's debate.  Keeping my fingers crossed that Kerry comes through again.  :-)


 


AnnL
Transitions Farm
Gardening, cooking, and riding Central Mass.

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux