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Very telling.

Canuck's picture

(post #52968, reply #1 of 20)

Not a good situation, but what's your point?


There are actually supposed to be beds for all these women. Free. They all will have received prenatal care, free, and will have visiting nurses after the birth to help with breastfeeding and the mothers' recovery. Free. 


Women giving birth on the way to hospital isn't news, and isn't a reflection on the health care system; babies often come faster than expected or mothers wait too long before heading to hospital.


There are approximately 600 000 births each year in England according to the Office of National Statistics. Five hundred in hospitals but not on wards is a very small percentage. Those women still received medical care after their births. Yes, it's not ideal. But the US certainly isn't beating that number.


Did you read the comments after the article? The one from the American points out the flaws in your system.


Edited 8/26/2009 6:58 am ET by Canuck

MadMom's picture

(post #52968, reply #3 of 20)

As always, it would be better if the unwashed masses gave birth at home for lack of insurance and had no prenatal care.  Leave those nice hospital rooms for those who are able to pay for them.


I hope everyone realizes I'm being sarcastic.




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Heather's picture

(post #52968, reply #4 of 20)

I was at a party last night and chatted with my friend's daughter who moved to England about 5 years ago. She has had two children there and never wants to move back to the US because she loves the British healthcare system. She raves about the follow-up care and support that new Moms get.

ashleyd's picture

(post #52968, reply #2 of 20)

As ever the story under the dramatic headline is rather less scary than the "hook" would have you believe. As Canuck pointed out it shouldn't happen, but in terms of the number of successful deliveries in the right place this is a very small number indeed, a fraction of one percent. Nobody is claiming that the NHS is perfect but overall it provides a good service at a price the country can afford to pay (as the recipients of care don't have to pay).


The irony is that the current "liberal" government is actually destroying parts of it by trying to move to the US model, so there is an internal "market", private companies are providing some clinical functions and services (and making a healthy profit) which is taking money away from core services. It is also typical of the current government that even when the ideas they have to improve services are reasonable, their sheer management incompetence means that by the time it gets to execution any potential benefits are lost and the costs have risen considerably, thus wiping out any potential savings.



Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Lee's picture

(post #52968, reply #5 of 20)

Did you post this article to inspire fear that the US is in danger of becoming a country with British-style socialized medicine?  Do you know that we spend more money, per capita, on health care than any other industrialized country in the world, yet our infant mortality rate is higher than that of any other industrialized country?  Should we be complacent about that and turn our backs on fixing a system that costs more and delivers less?    


Edited 8/27/2009 12:53 am ET by lee

BonnieinHolland's picture

(post #52968, reply #6 of 20)

Oz, you do realize what kind of paper the Daily Maily is, don't you?  I've learned to get a giggle out of its articles but not to believe anything in it.  cheers, Bonnie

Ozark's picture

(post #52968, reply #7 of 20)

Not getting any better!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html


'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.

 


 


Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

 

Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

ashleyd's picture

(post #52968, reply #8 of 20)

Clearly something is wrong, but we must be careful of extrapolating figures based on a few reported cases to reach theoretical figures of "one million patients", which I suspect grossly overstates the case. But it is true that geriatric care falls short of the standards we should expect, it's partly because far too many elderly patients are in hospital because they have nowhere else to go, they really should be in some kind of supported care but local government (who provide this kind of care) can't or won't pay for it, and partly because geriatric care is always a low priority and tends to get cut in favour of acute and emergency care. After all if you can't get round to changing an old man's bed linen then generally the health consequences are minimal, but if you can't treat a stab wound or burst appendix then the consequences can be serious, if not fatal.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Aberwacky's picture

(post #52968, reply #9 of 20)

The same is true for elderly people in the U.S., sadly. 


Leigh


"Happiness does not depend on outward things, but on the way we see them."
-Leo Tolstoy
"Happiness does not depend on outward things, but on the way we see them." 
-Leo Tolstoy
ashleyd's picture

(post #52968, reply #10 of 20)

I think it's probably true for all countries where the elderly are not looked after by their families.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Aberwacky's picture

(post #52968, reply #12 of 20)

Yes.  Sadly, most industrialized countries have long lost the tradition of multi-generational care that's found in developing countries.   Most extended families in the U.S. are separated by hundreds if not thousands of miles, for example, but there are many societal factors, of course.


Leigh


 


"Happiness does not depend on outward things, but on the way we see them."
-Leo Tolstoy
"Happiness does not depend on outward things, but on the way we see them." 
-Leo Tolstoy
shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52968, reply #11 of 20)

Why are you doing this? You don't live in Britain. You have nothing to fear from, or gain by, Britain's health care system. Nothing like the NHS is on the agenda for the US. Unless you're planning on travelling to the UK and getting sick there, or hit by a bus or something, you'll never experience the system first-hand. So why is it so important to you to demonize something you evidently know little about, and will likely never actually encounter?




"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"

Ozark's picture

(post #52968, reply #13 of 20)

I didn't write the article. You non US folks sure love to give your opinion on our system. I see the US following in your foot steps. I posted it because the UK and Canadian systems are held up as superior to ours. I don't want our government running 20% of our economy. Government can't do anything efficiently.


 


 


Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

 

Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

MadMom's picture

(post #52968, reply #14 of 20)

Governments ought to get out of the military, too.  And the police, fire department, and education.  After all, they can't run anything efficiently.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52968, reply #15 of 20)

And utilities and communications. If windmills and smoke signals were good enough for our ancestors, why do we need hydro-electric plants and telephones?




"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"

leonap's picture

(post #52968, reply #16 of 20)

Don't forget our interstates. You know each county should fully fund their own schools and roads.


Edited 8/27/2009 12:40 pm ET by leonap

thecooktoo's picture

(post #52968, reply #19 of 20)

Are you off of your meds today.  That's a really silly response.


Jim

MadMom's picture

(post #52968, reply #20 of 20)

You are opposed to the government running anything because "they can't run anything efficiently."  I was merely pointing out the large number of things run by the national or local governments.  Be prepared.  When you make blanket general statements, someone (who probably isn't off their meds) will call you on it.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Heather's picture

(post #52968, reply #17 of 20)

There are lots of horror stories of hospitals and medical care here too. Lots of people die in the US due to lack of care or mistakes.
Back to your first post about terrible conditions for giving birth--a friend did his internship at a large inner-city hospital in the US. There were only a few labor rooms, the vast majority of women were forced to walk in the alley behind the hospital until they were ready to deliver. They would lean on the dirty walls while they were going through a contraction, then pace between contractions. Lovely.

Edited to add that these were obviously women with Medicaid or no insurance at all.


Edited 8/27/2009 4:59 pm by Heather

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52968, reply #18 of 20)

So would you really prefer a country without government? AKA anarchy? If so, you might want to look into real estate deals in Darfur. Or Afghanistan, which seems to need just the gentlest of nudges before it tips over into anarchy.


Be careful what you wish for.





"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"