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The Spies on our Doorsteps

BigDaddy0146's picture

This is about as chilling as chilling gets.  The Boston Globe, which has a somewhat left-of-center editorial staff is, never the less, a publication of great integrity and held in high regard.  For this to be the lead editorial in today's paper makes me shudder.  And, oh, by the way, also in today's paper is a new poll showing 72% of Americans believe that Bush is doing good job leading the country.


I just don't get it.


Ashcroft versus Americans



Thai ChileBig Daddy

Big Daddy

TessaK's picture

(post #40125, reply #1 of 55)

If it weren't July 17 I'd say it's an April Fools joke.

gjander's picture

(post #40125, reply #2 of 55)

What else should we expect from a man who was rejected by voters in his home state in favor of a dead man?

StevenHB's picture

(post #40125, reply #3 of 55)

This is so typical of John Ashcroft.  Members of this board could report the "deviant beliefs" of its members to the program.


Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
CookiM0nster's picture

(post #40125, reply #4 of 55)

Unbelieveable. Just another reason to be glad I'm in canada.

StevenHB's picture

(post #40125, reply #5 of 55)

I'm sure that the program will be so wildly successful that the Bush administration will threaten to close the border if the Canadian government doesn't implement something similar.


After all, deviant Canadian citizens could infiltrate the US.



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #40125, reply #20 of 55)

Just wait until Canada loosens its marijuana laws (as evidently we are about to do ...) Ashcroft & co. will be all for sending in the Marines!


This latest development revolts and frightens me, and most frightening of all is that it doesn't surprise me for a nano-second. But surely there are enough rational Americans left to say "whoaaaa there, big boy!"  Does the name "McCarthy" strike any familiar chords?

CaroleG4's picture

(post #40125, reply #21 of 55)

Doesn't surprise me in the least.......I, too, can't understand why more Americans aren't screaming.......


Ah, yes, I do.......The same thing happened when I dared suggest that American Intelligence dropped the ball before 9/11....We, who dare question this administration are not good  Americans in a lot of people's eyes......Yeah, I remember McCarthy and good ol J. Edgar Hoover.....


Until protest becomes allowed again without branding protesters with an anti-American brush, we will have become a nation of sheep.......


This one makes me sick......

Off to Tucson, got my groove on, in the shadow of the Rincon...
APonKP's picture

(post #40125, reply #23 of 55)

enough rational Americans


Don't count on it.  Is there room up there in Canada for us CTers who may be labled security risks?  Shrub's posse is probably reading this right now.


A book is like a garden carried in your pocket.   Chinese proverb
One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.  A.A. Milne
Biscuits's picture

(post #40125, reply #6 of 55)

I have said it from Day 1 - Ashcroft does, and will continue to scare the living hell out of me.  I CANNOT believe that he is actually our attorney general.  I can't believe more people aren't screaming their heads off to get rid of him.  Talk about an enemy of due process, of civil liberties, of personal liberties, of the right to privacy, of SEARCH AND SEIZURE!   If this guy has his way the search and seizure laws will be all but gutted.  Hopefully, he won't have his way.  I'm praying, keeping my fingers crossed.  I mean, I'm all for finding terrorists, for keeping them under surveilance, for doing whatever we can to find them and stop them - but not at the expense of the general propulations right to privacy and our search and seizure laws.  No way.  Because once those protections are gone, it's going to be incredibly difficult if not impossible to get them back.  I've heard Mr. Ashcroft and some of his supporters make mention of "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."  Yea, that's what McCarthy said, too.  Be afraid, everyone, be very afraid.

If you accept a dinner invitation, you have a moral obligation to be amusing - the Duchess of Windsor

Ancora Imparo -

TracyK's picture

(post #40125, reply #7 of 55)

I'm moving to Australia.


Civilization means food and literature all round. Beefsteaks and fiction magazines for all.
First-class proteins for the body, fourth-class love-stories for the spirit.  
—Aldous Huxley

Jean's picture

(post #40125, reply #8 of 55)

"This story ran on page A22 of the Boston Globe on 7/17/2002"


Wouldn't you think this deserved front page coverage?


 


Am I ambivalent?  Well, yes and no.

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
StevenHB's picture

(post #40125, reply #9 of 55)

The link was to an editorial.  Editorials are printed on the third-to-last page of the A (news) section Monday-Saturday.



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
Gretchen's picture

(post #40125, reply #10 of 55)

"This story ran on page A22 of the Boston Globe on 7/17/2002"


Wouldn't you think this deserved front page coverage?


I would guess that p. 22 is the editorial page.



 


Gretchen
Gretchen
BigDaddy0146's picture

(post #40125, reply #11 of 55)

Wouldn't you think this deserved front page coverage?


I have to admit that I was surprised that I heard of this via an editorial.  I'm shocked that members of congress, not to mention the press in general, aren't screaming bloody murder.  It may be that this has just been proposed, I don't know.  But I bet we haven't heard the last of it.



Thai ChileBig Daddy

Big Daddy

BigDaddy0146's picture

(post #40125, reply #13 of 55)

The goal of the program is to establish a reliable and comprehensive national system for reporting suspicious, and potentially terrorist-related, activity.


As quoted from the website.  Here's the link.


http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html



Thai ChileBig Daddy

Big Daddy

TessaK's picture

(post #40125, reply #14 of 55)

The program will involve the millions of American workers who, in the daily course of their work, are in a unique position to see potentially unusual or suspicious activity in public places


Public places, that's not the same as private homes. Of course I don't know if my mail box at the end of my drive way is public or private under this plan.

SusanSz's picture

(post #40125, reply #15 of 55)

Plans for its pilot phase, to start in August, have Operation TIPS recruiting a million letter carriers, meter readers, cable technicians, and other workers with access to private homes as informants to report to the Justice Department any activities they think suspicious.


The above from the editorial.


I read into this that people with access to private homes could report suspicious activity within the home itself.  Now I'll have to go back to the TIPS website and see what it says again, though that site is very vague.


Sigh.


Susan


Edited to reply to myself: The TIPS website does say public places and along transportation routes.  The editorial says cable workers and people with access to private homes.  I wonder where the editorial writer got his/her (didn't read the name) information?  And doesn't suspicious package reporting take place anyways?  That's why airports are always being evacuated, because someone left their frozen cheesecake unattended or something...


Edited 7/17/2002 2:54:13 PM ET by Susan S.

TessaK's picture

(post #40125, reply #17 of 55)

Right, that's what I was wondering, where the jump from public spaces to private homes came from. Not that I'd put it past Ashcroft in any way shape or form, mind you.

BigDaddy0146's picture

(post #40125, reply #18 of 55)

Good points.  I did a little extra research and turned up a couple of articles with the government denying any desire to spy on its citizens while some organizations contacted by the government are saying that, behind the scenes, the program is being portrayed differently.  On the one hand the feds are saying that this is a completely voluntary program while they are vigorously recruiting at the same time.


Who knows.  But when it comes to this administration I'd say it's a good idea to sleep with one eye open.  With all due respect, citizen rights aren't exactly at the top of thier agenda.


I suspect more will unfold in coming days.



Thai ChileBig Daddy

Big Daddy

MadMom's picture

(post #40125, reply #48 of 55)

This whole anti-terrorism-homeland-security-nazi youth thing just scares the he11 out of me!  (Now I'll be banned for calling Ashcroft et al nazis!)  When will we realize that if we eliminate our constitutional protections to try to catch the terrorists that we will have done their job of trying to destroy our country for them?  Maybe if even more people get hit in the pocketbook as our economy goes down the toilet, Bushie's approval ratings will finally be where they belong...with a percentage equal to the percentage of far-right-wing-nutcases in the country.  I think I'll go back and hide in the woods...or is there more room in Canada???

When I die, I want to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather...
Not yelling and screaming, like the passengers in his car!

APonKP's picture

(post #40125, reply #49 of 55)

She's baa..aack!  Thank goodness!

A book is like a garden carried in your pocket.   Chinese proverb

One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.  A.A. Milne
CookiM0nster's picture

(post #40125, reply #50 of 55)

Hey MM, come on over. We've got plenty of space in Alberta. Of course, it does bear a striking resemblence to Texas, politics adn all...

Jean's picture

(post #40125, reply #19 of 55)

Editorial, of course, well duh.


Public to private is quite a leap. The writers own personal black helicopters??


 


Am I ambivalent?  Well, yes and no.

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Wolvie's picture

(post #40125, reply #45 of 55)

ummm, nooooo - it's been reported on the major TV stations, too.

Woe to the cook whose sauce has no sting
- Chaucer

 

StevenHB's picture

(post #40125, reply #26 of 55)

The Globe's editorials are written by a board of writers.  I happen to play tennis with one of these writers who told me that her favorite editorials are the "climatorials" about the weather (this surprised me since these seem to be the most content- and thought-free editorials.  She told me that The Globe cannot always be thinking big, arrogant thoughts).


I think that this is fairly standard in the newspaper industry.  It's only the columns on the op-ed pages that tend to be attributed.


I'll have to ask her about this one if I happen to see her.



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
MEANCHEF's picture

(post #40125, reply #16 of 55)

The Loyalty Oath is next.

 

Wolvie's picture

(post #40125, reply #44 of 55)

the postal service has already declined to participate. TG.

Woe to the cook whose sauce has no sting
- Chaucer

 

StevenHB's picture

(post #40125, reply #47 of 55)

Well now we'll all have to say nice things about the post office.  At least they got something right.


Edited to correct typo.




Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible


Edited 7/19/2002 11:16:22 AM ET by StevenHB

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
SusanSz's picture

(post #40125, reply #12 of 55)

Oh my.  This really is very scary.


What's the saying?  Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it?  Yikes....


Susan

PeterDurand's picture

(post #40125, reply #22 of 55)

Aschroft….? Was he the jerk who had a statue in front of the justice dept covered because it showed, oh my gawd, boobs?

Oh boy. Good luck with this one my friends.

Peter