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peace love and understanding?

jaq's picture

Well, we just had our first bout of holiday silliness in Colorado.  In a small plains town, a certain couple decided to put out a wreath shaped like a peace sign.  The head of the homeowners association where they lived took great exception to this.  He felt it was disrespectful of the troops, and possibly Satanic besides.  Did you know the peace sign has Satanic origins?  I haven't read Da Vinci Code, so this was a new one on me.


When the rest of the board did not agree with his decision to demand that the couple take their wreath down, he fired them all.  Then he told the couple he would fine them every day that they kept the sign up.


 


Fortunately, the couple were pretty media-savvy, and got the word out about it.  Today this guy backed down and apologized. 


 


People dying every day, in Iraq, in Darfur, and this is what he gets upset about?  At least sanity prevailed this time.

Canuck's picture

(post #46569, reply #1 of 56)

Yeah, we want to discourage peace signs everywhere, particularly at this time of  year.


How incredibly stupid can people be?

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #2 of 56)

I read about that this morning, and wanted to vomit.  Disrespectful to the troops??? I suppose if you support the troops, you put up a sign which says "WAR!" during the holidays?  I honestly felt like writing the people, if I had their address.  What a jackass on the homeowners' association board.  I hope he resigns.  For heaven's sake, isn't the whole point of Christ's birth to bring "Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Men"?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #3 of 56)

Remember, the one constant you can always count on; people are stupid.

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #4 of 56)

Amen!  I guess all of us are stupid in one way or another, but some just take it to an art form.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #5 of 56)

No, we are not all stupid, maybe less informed sometimes, or we let emotion rule instead of reason.  But there are some truly stupid folks out there.  You should ride with me on the Detroit expressways, that will convince you!

Wolvie's picture

(post #46569, reply #6 of 56)

terribly sad - but at least the attention forced him to do the right thing.

 


I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. - Will Rogers

 

jaq's picture

(post #46569, reply #7 of 56)

So now the head of the homeowners board has resigned.  He is returning to Conneticut, where there are presumeably fewer peace-loving Satanists.


Our Colorado newspaper did a poll to see what people thought of when they saw a picture of the wreath/peace symbol.  86% thought of peace, 6% thought of Christmas, about 7% weren't sure what they thought of, and 2% thought of Satanists.  Have I missed something with the Satanist angle?  My personal feeling is that we should go find that 2% and lock them up for their own good.

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #8 of 56)

OH, COOL! Let’s find the nutty minority we disagree with and lock them up!  Hey, maybe we can gas‘em too.  I think you can look to the Third Reich for some detailed instructions on how to get that done lickity-split!  Brown Shirts anyone…….  Gotta love America, everyone’s welcome, well, sorta.

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #9 of 56)

Oh, c'mon, Napie...even you have got to agree that people who see a peace sign and think they've just met a Satanist are a bit out there.  Besides, I think the "lock them up for their own good" comment was meant in jest.  Probably a lot more than the "fine them every day until they take the thing down" mentality.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

jaq's picture

(post #46569, reply #10 of 56)

Indeed, the comment was meant in jest.  Sorry if I pushed a button.

Adele's picture

(post #46569, reply #11 of 56)

Well, who knew?  Not I.  One of the girls at work immediately said it was a symbol of a broken cross.


http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm


I found the above, I'm sure there is more.


 


But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #12 of 56)

You can find anything on the internet, particularly if you google "Christian" web sites.  You might want to point out the following to your friend:

There have been claims that the symbol has older, occult or anti-Christian associations. In South Africa, under the apartheid regime, there was an official attempt to ban it. Various far-right and fundamentalist American groups have also spread the idea of Satanic associations or condemned it as a Communist sign. However the origins and the ideas behind the symbol have been clearly described, both in letters and in interviews, by Gerald Holtom and his original, first sketches are now on display as part of the Commonweal Collection in Bradford.


Although specifically designed for the anti-nuclear movement it has quite deliberately never been copyrighted. No one has to pay or to seek permission before they use it. A symbol of freedom, it is free for all. This of course sometimes leads to its use, or misuse, in circumstances that CND and the peace movement find distasteful. It is also often exploited for commercial, advertising or generally fashion purposes. We can’t stop this happening and have no intention of copyrighting it. All we can do is to ask commercial users if they would like to make a donation. Any money received is used for CND’s peace education and information work.


Or this:


The Peace Sign
Theories on the Origins


The "peace sign" was originally the symbol of the (U.K.) Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). It was designed by Gerald Holtom in 1958. The frequently-repeated but mistaken belief that it was designed by Bertrand Russell probably stems from the fact that Russell was the president of the CND at the time. 


The first public use of the symbol was on flags and placards during the 1958 Aldermaston march (in England). It was described in Manchester Guardian articles covering the march.




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Adele's picture

(post #46569, reply #13 of 56)

Cool.  Peace man.

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

soupereasy's picture

(post #46569, reply #15 of 56)

Interesting. Language and symbols are always so fluid, ever changing. My peace symbol, your dis to christianity.

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #20 of 56)

You know I really have a hard time telling when you guy's are joking, I mean it, it is HARD to tell.  When I say something off the cuff, you all are like attack dogs, no jokes accepted from a conservative..... You are a pretty intolerent bunch here.  I have been contacted off-line by a number of folks who look but do not post here anymore due to the rabid attitude toward people you don't agree with.  I thought a halmark of liberalism is an open mind, I see NONE of that here.


And for your information, there is historical evidence that followers of the black arts have used symbols that look a lot like the peace sign.  I understand it really came from the anti-nuke movement, but I'd need to look into that.

Heather's picture

(post #46569, reply #21 of 56)

I have no idea whether the "peace sign" echoes some satanic symbol from the past, but there are limited variations on simple geometric designs so it wouldn't surprise me. After all, several cultures have used swastikas (sometimes reversed) for centuries.
But I have to laugh at someone assuming that a Satanist would hang a symbol made from greenery as part of a Holiday display. That is quite a stretch and that poor soul must be seeing satanist symbols all over the place. Or could he have dragged that idea out to increase the level of hysteria over the issue?--but maybe I'm being too cynical.

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #22 of 56)

I think Heather had a good point...would a true Satanist have really used a symbol made to look like a Christmas wreath?  and would they have hung it during the holiday season? 


I'm sorry if you find us intolerant.  I think liberals are pretty tired of being dissed by the current administration.  Remember, it was you conservatives who thought of making the "L" word a dirty word, and it was this administration that basically said "You're either with me, or you're with the terrorists."  I mean, you did accuse someone of being with the brownshirt Nazis (I first typed brownshirt with two "t's" instead of an "rt" - would that have been a Freudian slip?)  If you want to see intolerance, try expressing a liberal viewpoint over in the 'Shed!  In the immortal words of Rodney King, can't we just all get along?




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #27 of 56)

Probably not, Rodney was a career criminal and not someone who I’d look to for an example of how behave.


 


As to the how the “L” word became dirty, we need to look back a bit father in history there MM.  Conservatives took a huge amount of heat in the 60’s and 70’s.  This is all cyclical.  Remember the liberals were burning draft cards not that long ago.  The reason the likes of Rush became popular were the excesses of the far left. Also many of my “liberal” friends are far more conservative than they think when we go issue by issue, just as they are surprised how left I am on certain issues.


 


But what I really look for is the ability to debate issues without ad hominem attacks.  Many times that does not seem to be the case here.


 


On another note I just watched Obama on the Leno show, he sure is smooth, I could get to like him, but I’d really like to see some detail of his positions.

TracyK's picture

(post #46569, reply #23 of 56)

Peace symbol:


 


Anarchy symbol: 


 


Mercedes symbol:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class_W0QQitemZ220016565727QQcmdZViewItem


 


Upright pentacle: (used by Pagans, ancient Israelites, Christians, magicians, Wiccans and others)


 


Inverted pentacle: Inverted version of the upright pentacle, sometimes used by Satanists, though more often they use the version with a goat's head in the center: 


 


Now, why are we still going on about this ridiculous story?



CT poster in bad standing since 2000.


Edited 12/1/2006 4:44 pm ET by TracyK

KitchenWitch's picture

(post #46569, reply #28 of 56)

I have to add that Satanists also use an inverted crucifix...so does that make a crucifix a Satanic symbol?


Answer: of course not. but if I had a dollar for everytime someone saw the pentacle I occasionally wear and assumed I'm a Satanist....well, I couldn't retire, but I could buy a LOT of lattes.


~RuthAnn


You don't scare me. I have a three year old.

~RuthAnn

samchang's picture

(post #46569, reply #24 of 56)

>I thought a halmark (sic) of liberalism is an open mind, I see NONE of that here.

Speaking for myself alone, if my responses did not show an open mind, I am only responding in kind. Read many of the posts you've entered: they are lecturing, hectoring, judgmental, patronizing. I may be a liberal, but I'm not a saint.

jaq's picture

(post #46569, reply #25 of 56)

I did some very basic and shallow web research on the peace symbol.  Most accounts seem to agree that it was invented circa 1958 in order to protest the proliferation of nuclear energy.  I found one Christian website that went on about the Satanist roots of the symbol.  But it was the only place that took that story seriously.


It does seem that the "inventor" of the symbol used some older symbols incorporated in what he came up with.  (Sorry, dangling participle.)  They may include an old German rune for death.  He also apparantly wanted to incorporate semaphore variations in the sign - one symbol of "N" for nuclear and another letter whose purpose escapes me in a brain-fried moment.  It's generally agreed that the peace sign gives a nod to many different  ancient symbols.  I read one website that claimed that the "Raven foot" which looks somewhat like the peace sign was an old Christian symbol, but that the far right misinterpreted its ancient meaning and decided that it was Satanist or witchy, not Christian.  So there you go, for what it's worth. 


I guess it's all who you decide to believe.  I have a hard time believing that this Pagosa Springs couple were closet Satanists giving the thumbed nose to the community with their secret Satanic message. 


 


Peace out!

mer's picture

(post #46569, reply #26 of 56)

Thank you Samchang. I haven't known quite how to respond. You said it for me.

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #29 of 56)

Hum, those are the very descriptions I would use regarding the things you have posted there Sam.  No saint here either….

samchang's picture

(post #46569, reply #30 of 56)

Again, if the posts to you seem lecturing, hectoring, judgmental, and patronizing, it's because they were responses to yours. BTW, I have no problem with your attitude or tone. I just find it odd that you, who show so much of it, seem so surprised when the same attitude is directed back at you. You reap what you sow.

Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #31 of 56)

Cool, then we are on the same page.  I just always thought liberals were supposed to be far nicer than us mean old conservatives, at least that is what most of them always told me….  I’m learning a lot here.

jaq's picture

(post #46569, reply #32 of 56)

I find it bizarre that this post has turned into a liberal-vs-conservative argument. Napie, I think you were upset with me because of a joke that I made about locking up people who see Satan everywhere. My personal feeling is that your emotion is a response to a post on a different thread, in which I asked you not to cut and paste remarks from this forum to a conservative forum for people to mock. You never responded to that comment (in which I also included an apology in case I was being paranoid) but you did come in with a very strong attack on this thread, accusing me of wanting to lock people away like the brown shirt Nazis.

You also say that you can't tell if there is a joke being made on this forum or not. I would suggest that you ask if you are unsure, it will save you a lot of grief. You yourself don't seem afraid to use sarcasm and denigrating and patronizing remarks, and assume that we understand that they are not meant seriously- or so I have been assuming, giving you the benefit of the doubt. This is not an ad hominem attack, but an observation of your behavior- perhaps not a flattering interpretation, but a reasonable one. I am not saying who you are as a person or calling you names(the definition of an ad hominem attack) but am letting you know how I see your behavior.

As to everyone else, sorry if this thread has degenerated. I didn't mean to be controversial, but thought that the whole premise of finding a Christmas wreath and peace sign offensive to the troops was kind of wacky, and thought you guys would appreciate it. I know I can be kind of sarcastic sometimes, and apologize for my part in things taking an unpleasant turn.

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #34 of 56)

Napie...don't ask me why, but I do like you, LOL.  I could make a remark right now about how some of my best friends are Republicans, but you might not understand.  I do agree that things go in cycles.  Remember when Barry Goldwater was attacked with the A-bomb ads (elect a conservative and this country will go up in nuclear smoke?)  I think the conservatives, particularly Karl Rove, took that lesson to heart and have turned nasty campaigning into an art form.  After all, when John McCain looked like he might be beating George Bush in the 2000 campaign, there were suddenly rumors about his adopted black love child...enough to sink him in the South Carolina primary and basically ruin his chances.  Of course, it wasn't true, but enough people believed it long enough, and that's all that matters. 


We had a great example in the Tennessee race this year, with the "wink, wink, call me" ad which played to people's racist fears that all black men just sit around dreaming of making it with white women.  It worked there, sad to say, but the Dems still got control of Congress.  Before you remind me that we've always had dirty campaigning, I will say I'm aware of it, but I just hate it, and wish both parties would stop it.  I cannot remember the last time I honestly heard candidates put their issues at the forefront of a campaign.  It's always negative campaigning about their opponent.  Do you think maybe liberals and conservatives could get together and put a stop to that, on both sides?




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Napie's picture

(post #46569, reply #36 of 56)

Of course you like me, thinking people who do not let their emotions rule them and who attempt to look at issues from every possible perspective will always like each other, (even if we don’t agree), we have too, there are so few of us! (LOL too, but I mean it).


 


Now let’s remember, I’m NOT a Republican, I’m conservative, and those two seem to be getting farther and farther from each other.  I’ll bet it I went down a list of issues, most of us here would agree more than not.  Maybe some thorny philosophical/moral points might get contentious, but I’m thinking there’s more in common.


 


Now, are you going to send your knives?  I had the stones out today and touched all of mine up, sure makes dicing the onion more fun.


 


What’s on the menu tonight?


 

MadMom's picture

(post #46569, reply #37 of 56)

Tonight was leftover stew..."NeeNee's Stew" which my husband's mother used to make, and which we crave whenever it's cold.  It's our comfort food.  The cold weather seems to have been delayed, though, and isn't due to arrive until tomorrow.  We went up toward Raleigh today and took the boys to ride the Christmas Train run by the New Hope Valley Railway.  It's an all-volunteer operation, and as my Irish DSIL pointed out, "These people couldn't get drunk if they were locked in a brewery."  We had to wait almost two hours to get onto the train, because they only had one man (very slow) selling tickets, even though they had two ticket windows and a woman sitting in the ticket booth next to him.  My DD joked that she considered volunteering because she knows how to run a MC/Visa machine and she could probably sell them twice as fast.  The first train left without all the seats filled, because the ticket sales were so slow, and so did our train.  Still, the boys loved it, got to talk to Santa who was aboard the train and got a candy cane from his helper.  We ate breakfast on the way, so it was a nice day.


I will definitely send you the knives, but figured you might prefer I wait until after Christmas when things are slower for you and the postal service.  Just let me know.  No hurry.


And PS, I'm a conservative too, at least fiscally.  When it comes to social issues, I'm more of a tree-hugging, pinko, commie, liberal, LOL.




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!