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Need some advice,plz

Rhea's picture

I'm sorry to bother anyone today, but I am sitting here crying and I don't know where else to turn to for advice,...I haven't been around here as my  Dad's health has not been great and the fact that my Mother has pretty much deserted me over a recent incident, has just not left me in the cooking kind of mood...


Two and a half years ago I met the man of my dreams( even with his imperfections)LOL...he was separated and has kids. We live an hour apart and still that never come in the way of us seeing each other. After a couple of dates we talked about the future since both of us were not getting any younger and after both of us had been with "time wasters" we wanted to make sure that we felt the same about our future. The summer after we met, he filed for a divorce....


He had a vasectamy after his kids and told me that he was interested in marraige again and a family as well with me. So, here we are 2 1/2 years later and last summer one of his sons came to live with him. He is wonderful and my guy has often told me that I am a better mom to his son than his ex. I know this to be true because of how the kids have looked and behaved over the past years. While they are very good with me, there are cleanliness and discipline issues that are disgusting...too gross to get into here...


Last night he told me that he wants to bring his other son to live with him in the fall,.....meanwhile we think that someone from the other side is putting things into his 9 year old that is with him now- about going back to the Mom. Since he has been with his dad, he has thrived in all aspects of his life...socially and school. I feel very lucky to have seen one man make such a HUGE difference in a child's life like I have seen here. If that boy were to go back to the Mom-who has three back there already....(.two of which belong to a low life she hooked up with and pays not a dime-of course,)....it would be horrible.


My guy would die inside and the last few night he has not slept or eaten....I have grown to love this boy and the thought of what it would do to my guy kills me inside...I have tried to tell him gently that I do not think that woman will ever give up the other boy( we are pretty sure she was forced to do so with the 9 year old and that there was a complaint against her from an agency or past school ) and he has exploded. While his heart is in the right place, he I sit wondering what will become of us as I feel pushed a little lower on the pole to us making a life together.


Last night he also told me he does not want to have any more kids.....he cannot afford the reversal and feels that due to the time that has lapsed and my age (40) that there is no point. He told me that he wishes we had met 10 years ago because he knows we would have had  a family.... 


I sat on the balcony all night in the dark and cried....I haven't been able to stop all day....I have always wanted to be a Mom and the past years just didn't have me with a guy that was a life partner. All that changed when I met this man. It's not that I am older and my clock is ticking,...it is the love I have inside for this man and the wanting of sharing one of life's most precious gifts with him....


I am so angry....and asked him why on earth he did not tell me his change of plans earlier...and while I may have cried alot and still wished to be with him, it would have given me the opportunity to throw myself out there  again and find a guy who felt the way I did about wanting a family. I told him he was selfish...


He told me he is afraid that I would leave him after we got married  if we tried to have a child and we were unsuccessful.....I would never leave.


I know that sometimes life is not what we hoped it would be, but somehow today I am just so sad inside....if I choose to end what we have, I am leaving someone who makes me laugh each and every day, someone who loves me for all that I am and the my crazy quirks. I love this man with all my heart, and his son,...God, how could I ever expain this to a 9 year old????? 


If I continue with the relationship, I just don't know how to come to terms with all this(therapy?)...He told me last night that if I loved him I would be satisfied with all that we have, and that he had hoped having his son here would be enough for me...It is BECAUSE I love him so much that this all hurts so bad...


I sit here thinking that I was supposed to have a family of my own somewhere in my life, and through a cruel twist of fate I will not have that...I don't really pray, but last night I swear I just sat crying looking up to my God and asking for help....I just feel that no matter what I decide I am no further ahead. It doesn't help that so often people ask me if we will have kids....I look at my Nephew's face sometimes as I tuck him into bed and my heart just aches...  I am so confused and feel empty inside and so lost...


Any words of comfort from you guys would help me so much today,....thnks for reading, and I am sorry this is so long


I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

MadMom's picture

(post #50247, reply #1 of 53)

Rhea, no words of advice, because only you can decide what you should do.  You have invested several years of your life with a man who, frankly, lied to you.  He wasn't honest about not wanting to have children, out of fear you might leave him?  Did it ever occur to him to just come right out and say that, giving you the option to leave before you tied the knot?  If you decide that you can live without children easier than you can live without him, then go for it.  If the decision goes the other way, then make a clean break of it.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

msm-s's picture

(post #50247, reply #2 of 53)

i can't write much now, but here's some initial thoughts:

1) "If you love me, you'll..." Bad words. Don't play that game. Run.
2) Sadly, love does not conquer all obstacles.
3) It is possible to be friends after a relationship ends (sometimes). hopefully, if it ends, this man will not only become a friend but will also let you see this boy sometimes
4) I had a healthy baby naturally at age 45. You can still find someone who doesn't lie.
5) Take care of yourself first.

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
–Jack Handey


Edited 6/4/2008 4:57 pm ET by msm-s

Fledge's picture

(post #50247, reply #4 of 53)

What msm said and AnnL


Been there done that.


You don't scare me


I have an African Grey

You don't scare me

I have an African Grey

Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #5 of 53)

Many many thanks,....sad thing is that underneath all of this crap, I think he is still afraid of another failed marriage and that he would benefit from some counselling....everyone's words here did a great job of trying to sort out what is rambling around in my head.


There's a big elephant in the room and I just have to get rid of it......I care for him very much...but it makes me feel that a couple needs to take of their own relationship FIRST before trying to bring his other son here...I guess his needs for more kids left when he got his one son....


It's just hard to get past the fact that he should have told me as soon as he felt differently...we have had wonderful relationship based on  trust and honesty, even when it may not be what the other person wants to hear,...so this is a big blow to swallow right now..


I have alot of thinking to do, I guess...


  


I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

AnnL's picture

(post #50247, reply #7 of 53)

I care for him very much...but it makes me feel that a couple needs to take of their own relationship FIRST before trying to bring his other son here...


Sorry, but his kids HAVE to come FIRST.  My friend is going through something similar with her SO.  His ex is on drugs and in an abusive relationship which she refuses to end, blah, blah, blah.  So, his 2 teenage sons have just moved in with them.  All their plans, all their "stuff" has to go on the back burner because keeping his kids safe and away from their lunatic mother has to be the priority.  I know that's hard for you to deal with, but it is the way it is. 


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Biscuit's picture

(post #50247, reply #12 of 53)

Rhea - his children will ALWAYS come first with him, and frankly, that's the way it should be. 


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

CookiM0nster's picture

(post #50247, reply #14 of 53)

And ditto Biscuit too.

msm-s's picture

(post #50247, reply #10 of 53)

(BTW- i think you meant to address your question to Fledge, who said BTDT).


Edited 6/4/2008 5:58 pm ET by msm-s

Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #19 of 53)

you are right,....just having a crazy moment...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

AnnL's picture

(post #50247, reply #3 of 53)

I'm so sorry for what you're going through.  I strongly suggest you talk to a counselor, someone who can help you sort through your feelings and figure out what's really the priority for you--this man or having children.  MSM-S has a point about the "if you love me" game, it is a game, don't fall for it.  It needs to be your decision about whether you will give up having children to be with this man.  I'm not so sure about having time to find someone and have kids.  It puts alot of pressure with that clock ticking away and none of us know when it's going to stop ticking.  Mine stopped very early, in my late 30s.  Took my options away much sooner than I had expected.  You could always investigate having a child on your own or adopting, either with this man or on your own. 


Seriously, you have alot of options and alot of feelings to work through and sort out.  Having someone objective to talk to will really help.


In the meantime, hugs to you.


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #6 of 53)

How did you get through it????

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

AnnL's picture

(post #50247, reply #8 of 53)

How did you get through it????


How did I get through what?  Early menopause?  Didn't have a choice.  <shrug>


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Jillsifer's picture

(post #50247, reply #9 of 53)

Ohhhhhh, my goodness. You poor, sweet thing. I'm SO SORRY. I'm also kinda mad at your guy because he should have been MUCH more forthcoming with this MUCH sooner. BIIIIIIIGGGGGGG hugs to you.


HOWEVER. I'm here to tell you that although you may not GET your child(ren) in the customary way, if you do decide to do some alternative "getting" (or begetting, I suppose), you CAN happily and successfully rear a lovely child on your own and have a wonderful family life. Single motherhood is NOT horrible or lonely or undo-able or any of that. It's different from married/conventional motherhood, but ohhhhhh, the freedom. I absolutely consider Gillen and myself a family, and we've been on our own for 10 of his 13 years. It's just an alternative to consider as you slog through all this hurt and grief and shock.


One possible idea? Don't make any irrevocable decisions until the initial "gut-punch" reaction has passed. You have plenty of time to break up, consider adoption, whatever, whatever AFTER you've cried yourself to sleep, paced the floor, stayed up all night, whatever you have to do. Give yourself a bit of time to process this before you do anything irreversible.


In the meantime, I'll keep you in my prayers.


 


 


I've never been a millionaire, but I just know I'd be darling at it.

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

mer's picture

(post #50247, reply #11 of 53)

just to play devil's advocate, but maybe, three years ago when you met, he did want a reversal and want to have kids.  Maybe things with his ex and kids have gotten so complicated that he feels overwhelmed with the idea of more kids and more family now.  Maybe his hands are full and he told you when he realized it, even if it is not what you want to hear.


As everyone has said, you need to take care of yourself.  Families are all different and can be made up of various combinations of relationships.  Maybe you could have your own/ adopt/ foster?  With him or without him... 


I think that therapy for yourself and for the two of you would be a great place to start.

CookiM0nster's picture

(post #50247, reply #13 of 53)

Ditto what Mer said.

msm-s's picture

(post #50247, reply #15 of 53)

Mer and Biscuit made excellent points, that this man's feelings about having kids may have been evolving (rather than he was lying), and that his kids are and should be his priority.
(edit to add: a dear friend married a much younger woman. he had one teenager and she'd never had kids. they thought they were on the same page about having children together, partly because they were both being overly empathetic with the other. but within a year, the marriage was over because they each realized how deeoly divided they were on this very important issue. They are now divorced but very, very good friends.)

Hurt can take time to heal. do go to a councellor and have some more talks with this guy. Be honest with him about how important children are to you and ask him to be totally honest too. There's never any point in telling a SO what they want to hear if it's untrue, except that it's a cowardly way to put off what may be painful.The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
–Jack Handey


Edited 6/4/2008 6:58 pm ET by msm-s

BoofyQ's picture

(post #50247, reply #16 of 53)

So sorry that you're faced with this difficult situation and decision. As Biscuit said, at best, you will only #3, after his kids.

You deserve to be #1. IMHO, when you find the right partner, and THEN decide to have kids together, you stay #1. The parental relationship is the foundation for the family, so extra effort is always focused there. But when there are already kids involved, especially youngsters, they have to come first. The kids deserve that. It's probably best for him to not even date anyone while his kids are at home, just to avoid any conflict. It's something of a double standard, perhaps, but it is what it is.

At 40 you are not too old. I had my twins last year at 39.

I encourage you to think forward, and to not change your expectations. Settling, making do with "just this one thing", is in conflict with staying true to yourself.

Hugs to you -- cry it out and turn to friends. You can move through this.

Gretchen's picture

(post #50247, reply #17 of 53)

If you love him then it will be the answer. You seem to truly truly love him, and that may be enough for your lifetime, at your age.
If you want to have a baby, you can do that, even without him--sort of sad to say, but in this day and age, it is true. SO if you only want to be a mother, you can do that.


I realize you feel a bit betrayed by this, but, maybe HE needed some time to sort out whether HE could be a father again.


So make a choice. Love your man/partner, mother his kids, and have a lovely life.


You don't necessarily need to be #3 behind his kids. You will be #1 on a different scale. And you can make a HUGE difference in these children's lives. Our DDIL is doing that for DS's child (and DGS's mother, the ex is also). Kids can't have too many good things happen to them.


 


 


Gretchen
Gretchen
Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #21 of 53)

Thank-you all for your words,...his ex is not a druggy, just a low level thinker that was great at having babies, just a crappy mother....I love making a difference in his son's life and it is so rewarding to see what my time and affection for him has brought forth.


I have watched him come home with "A's", now instead of him hiding his homework and bringing "C's".


He always asks when I will be at his home next and we do many fun things together that make both our days special...precious moments.


I have always known that his kids should come first...as they should...the youner boy,from the behaviour I have seen is still at the stage where he is hungering for the Mother's attention and there are times he cries when we meet to do the weekend exchange...very sad. 


I am not resentful that his son is now here,.....it brings much joy and happiness everyday, and I get to see first hand that my guy is a wonderful and loving Father with a heart bigger than anything...I just guess that it is hard knowing that I am unsure as to where I fit into the picture.


Adoption is something we cannot afford. The surgery he had can be reversed for a very expensive fee...The sad thing is that while an option could be to just find a donor out there,...I could never afford it on my own...


I know I won't feel better tomorrow, but your words have given me a new insight and I am so grateful to you all....


I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

msm-s's picture

(post #50247, reply #24 of 53)

Gretchen did lay it out well, how our relationships with and love for our SO, kids and parents are all different and can't really be compared.

However, i think the point was that when push comes to shove, the interest of the kids will come first. The good news is that you seem to be what's good for the kids!

My advice based on experience: Be really honest with yourself about what you need in this life and act accordingly. I ignored so many signs that my ex was wrong for me. We shared superficial interests but deep down had different needs, wants and goals in life but I tried to make things work out because we loved each other anyway; he "didn't want to lose" me and when he felt that i was ready to leave he'd pull out all the stops to convince me to stay, temporarily. That is very flattering stuff, but will hold you back from what you need. If the cold truth is that your needs won't be met in this relationship, then don't lose any more time by staying in it. Try to end it as friends and move on.

Be sure you can live with the worst-case scenario, child-wise, if you stay wth him. Be sure he'd be okay with you adopting or concieving by other means, and be very clear from the beginning about whether he'd be willing to help support that child or not. If he agrees that he can handle it emotionally but you mistakenly think that he intends to be more involved with that child personally or financially, there will be deeply hurt feelings that the relationship probably won't survive.

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
–Jack Handey

Edited 6/5/2008 9:47 am ET by msm-s


Edited 6/5/2008 9:52 am ET by msm-s

Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #25 of 53)

Very wise words( many thks!)


I always knew his kids would come first,...and I was OK with that...And while it really sucks that if we had met 10 years ago our lives surely would have been different....but who can dwell on that stuff???


I had so many bad and useless relationships in the past that I finally after a few of them began to see my worth and then based my choices on that....I do feel he is my soulmate, and after a long talk with my brother last night...he, like many here kind of said the same great words.


He also reminded me that in the past, when it came to men, I had plates of raw fish......


Then I met my guy and I got STEAK.......I may never have the roasted potatoes, but I have STEAK!!! After I laughed(which I so needed) things in my head started to unjumble a little bit.....


In the middle of all this is the fact that I am trying to get a transfer out his way so we can finally move in together , and after a talk last night he finally said that he did not know when "IT" hit him, but he knew that it would be selfish of him to have me move out there and start a life, when his views had changed.


As far as the adoption thing, I just don't have that kind of money....there are other ways around the reversal, but after I told him what was involved he kind of looked a bit pale...


I guess it just comes down to me either thanking God that I have a wonderful man in my life who loves me, and learning to live with cards have been dealt, OR starting again without knowing if I will find that special thing again....I was never one who gambles, and change is so hard for me..


I am taking the next few days to try and clear my head,


Again, many thanks,....I felt like I was losing it, and falling apart, and once again all of you came to help....they were the hugs I really needed....


I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

roz's picture

(post #50247, reply #27 of 53)

You are on the right track by taking some time for yourself. You deserve some space now. I agree with everything that has been said. But I urge you and your guy to go to couples counseling, whether you stay together or not. You have to explore what YOU really want and what he really wants. And as far as the kids being a number one priority, yes they are number one...and two. But you (if you decide to stay) will be number one as well, just on a different level. The kids will grow up, and hopefully, you two will still be together, as a unit for them. But step kids, whether young or adults, have precedence over some things. Good luck.

Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Do your best. Don Miguel Ruiz
Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #47 of 53)

Thank-you,...:) I did mention the counselling thing, as there are other issues that come with both our families that would keep any therapist in biz for centuries...LOL... sometimes advice from someone who is not "in it" is just so helpful...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

Canuck's picture

(post #50247, reply #28 of 53)

This is so hard. I have a friend in the same situation; young teen stepsons when she met their dad. Useless mother. Friend and father married, and the boys lived with them most of their teen years and into their 20s. She loves them wholeheartedly but seems to really grieve  not having a child herself.


My fear would be giving up the opportunity of having a child yourself, because you've said that's what you really want, and then finding out a few years from now that this relationship isn't working. It would be very difficult to have made such a huge sacrifice on his terms--and then realize it didn't make a difference.


From your last email, it sounded like he is asking you not to move out there. Or am I reading that wrong? If he is asking that, he is pulling away, and I think you need to make your own plans, including a child since that's what you want. Is it feasible to discuss your plans to have a child, and whether he wants to be part of your family?

dorcast's picture

(post #50247, reply #29 of 53)

FIrst of all, I am so sorry you are going through this. I have had my share of crying nights,
and know how painful this must be.

I keep rereading everyone's advice here, as you have received some very insightful replies.
And one of the wonderful things about a board like this, you are getting advice from many perspectives - all ages, single and coupled, with children, and not.

There is obviously no guarantee if this relationship ends that you will find another partner to have a child with, but if being a mother is a priority for you, you have to decide if you can live knowing you didn't try.

Although adoption and many of the options are expensive, and that is an issue for you. I have to believe where there is a will, there is a way. You are a loving person, who would be a good mother, and there will always be babies who need that.

For me, the fact that he didn't tell you his feelings earlier is an issue. Yes, as has aptly been pointed out, maybe he wasn't certain, maybe these feelings evolved. But, obviously he has been thinking about it, and should have shared some of his process along the way.

And, now it sounds as though he's waivering a bit on you moving in with him. I've always hated those break up conversations that twist to sound as though someone is doing what is best for you, or fair for you. You can be the judge of what is best for you.

Would he go to couples counseling with you? Whether you stay together or not, it might be beneficial for both of you.

Gretchen's picture

(post #50247, reply #32 of 53)

If the ways around the reversal are removal of the little swimmers via a procedure, it can be done. And the artificial insemination process for you is no day at the beach, believe me, so he shouldn't feel so bad about it.  Just a word for further discussion if that is a possibility.


One question that may clarify things for you is "if I'm not with him, will I be happy?  Does he make that difference in my life?"


Gretchen
Gretchen
Rhea's picture

(post #50247, reply #48 of 53)

"Does he make that difference in my life?"


yes....guess that is why this hurts so much...:)


I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

I can't even afford the lifestyle I don't want...

annieqst's picture

(post #50247, reply #51 of 53)

Rhea: I wanted children since I was a child. I always knew I'd have them. Yet I met my husband and he wanted neither marriage nor children and that was that. Not that he wouldn't discuss it, he just flat out didn't want them. When we finally chose to marry I had to have a long talk with myself about how this would impact me. I chose the option to marry a wonderful man and be childless and believe me, through my late 30s, I second guessed my decision. Every time a friend became pregnant, I'd cry. I so wanted a baby--but it didn't make me love DH less. I grew past the desire for babies of my own. I have magnificent nieces and nephews whom I love to pieces and who love me right back. We've shared wonderful experiences together and will continue to do so. Do I miss not having my own? Sure, but not in an overpowering way. It was a very thought out decision on my part. Best of luck on your decision.

nexus's picture

(post #50247, reply #33 of 53)

You've gotten a lot of really good advice here and I have nothing to add to that. I just wanted to send support. Its a hard, rotten place to be in when you have to make choices that are so difficult but remember that when one door closes another one opens and it may be one that you had not previously considered.


Best of luck.


Cheryl

evelyn's picture

(post #50247, reply #23 of 53)

You don't necessarily need to be #3 behind his kids. You will be #1 on a different scale.


You are so right, Gretchen.  We are not all on the same scales, Rhea.  His children are on one, you are on another.  You are not #3.  I hate applying numbers to relationships.


Rhea, I had Athina when I was 40.  If you want to have your own children, it is not too late.  And, as mentioned, there are other ways to have them where you don't need a partner.  It is unfortunate if you want to have this man's child(ren), but you just may have to do this on your own.


How would he feel about your staying in the relationship but having a child on your own?


I wish I could offer words of wisdom - I can't.  Relationships are tricky things and they're all so different.  All I can do is wish you the best, which I do from the bottom of my heart.  You are a good person.  May you find happiness.


The best way to forget all your troubles is to wear tight shoes. (unknown)

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.