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Lockerbie Injustice

Florida2's picture

Am I the only one here who is disgusted that the Scottish government let this murderer out on a "compassion" release?


Where was our President on this? Why did he not put more pressure on Scotland to hold this criminal in jail?


 Was there some type of behind the scenes deal about oil with Libya that resulted in the criminal's release.


If I were President, I'd let the Scots know that if they released this guy, that we would be calling back our ambassador and that it would have reprecussions on the Scot/USA relationship.

Lee's picture

(post #52946, reply #1 of 114)

It's outrageous.  I was disgusted with the limp response from our government yesterday.  I heard today that the WH and the State Department tried to talk the Scots out of it and that they tried to get Libya to refuse to accept him or to at least put him under house arrest.  Obviously, they failed in both attempts.  Obama made a stronger statement today, but it's too little too late, IMO.

MadMom's picture

(post #52946, reply #2 of 114)

Believe it or not, we do not run other governments.  I, too, was disgusted at the Scottish government's actions in this regard.  Our president made several very strong statements, but what else could he do?  Is it worth disrupting relations between our two countries over what I considered to be a bad decision and one they considered to be compassionate?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

PeterDurand's picture

(post #52946, reply #3 of 114)

<<Is it worth disrupting relations between our two countries over what I considered to be a bad decision and one they considered to be compassionate?>>

Hmmmm...release someone who murdered hundreds of people? On compassionate grounds?

He made "strong statements" you say. I expected better from a US President.

Needless to say I don't agree.

 
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...


Edited 8/21/2009 5:41 pm by PeterDurand

kathymcmo's picture

(post #52946, reply #4 of 114)

Scotland should've just provided hospice services, in the prison.


This is a circumstance when Obama's "cool" demeanor did not serve him well. Even if he is mad, he doesn't sound like it and that's what the public likely wants in this instance.

PeterDurand's picture

(post #52946, reply #5 of 114)

So what will he do next? Hold his breath until he turns blue? That will show 'em.

 


Better life through Zoodles and poutine...

cookie1's picture

(post #52946, reply #13 of 114)

LOL!!

Cheryl


It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice!

Cheryl

It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice!

Florida2's picture

(post #52946, reply #6 of 114)

No , we do not run other govts.  But, we had many  Americans that were killed by this criminal action. I expect more than a limp statement by the President, and more than a limp request that Libya not have a celebration for this mans return.


Something is very fishy in the case. Scots do NOT release all imprisoned murderers on compassion grounds. Many terminally ill killers in Scotland die in prison. Many.


Again, while we cannot control the Scots, there are things we can do other than make this bland statement. Such as recall our ambassador. Such as send home their ambassador. Such as let them know, publicly , that their action places a chill on our relationship with the Scots.


This is a reason I originally supported Hilary and not Obama. (Although I did support Obama) . At the time I thought he was very naive about the nature of evil in the world. I thought that he assumed that bad leaders were reasonable men who could be negotiated with. I think its a glaring weakness in Obama.


I also think Obama's lack of anything but a verbal response makes America look "weak" to these bad actor states, and thus makes it more likely they will attack again.

MadMom's picture

(post #52946, reply #7 of 114)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Biscuit's picture

(post #52946, reply #30 of 114)

Something is very fishy in the case. Scots do NOT release all imprisoned murderers on compassion grounds. Many terminally ill killers in Scotland die in prison. Many.


I'm just curious - how do you know this?  Is there some article, statistics, what? 


 


"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

Florida2's picture

(post #52946, reply #43 of 114)

There was an interview on CNN that revealed this, (the fact that many terminally ill killers are not given a "compassionate" release) yesterday. It was pretty interesting.


And no, it was not the Libyan hurrah that I objected to so much as the arrogance of the Scottish official who said it was compassionate to release a terminally ill murderer. Nowhere in his statement, btw, did he mention that the guilt was questionable. He just kept saying that in their law, they release terminally ill killers on compassionate grounds (but he neglected to add that many are indeed NOT released). Luckily for him, I couldnt reach into the TV set and smack him upside the head.


Edited to add: Here is a letter to Kennie McKaskell of Scotland, from the FBI director today:


 

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel09/mueller082209.htm

Edited 8/22/2009 6:47 pm ET by Florida2


Edited 8/22/2009 7:18 pm ET by Florida2

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52946, reply #45 of 114)

Just curious: Did you also send a letter to the authorities responsible for releasing Squeaky Fromme from prison on compassionate grounds?




"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"

Florida2's picture

(post #52946, reply #46 of 114)

Well, I did not send a letter to anyone about Lockerbie. That letter I posted was from The head of the FBI, not from me. I'm just mainly chatting about it here, and to friends.


I was very upset (and flabberghasted) that Squeaky Fromme was released from jail. Although she did not kill PRes. Ford, I think she is still a danger to society. .(I was not aware that she was released on "compassionate grounds". I thought she was released as part of their parole hearing guidelines, and some idiotic ruling (in my opinion) on her parole).


Edited 8/22/2009 7:43 pm ET by Florida2

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52946, reply #49 of 114)

My mistake. It was not on compassionate grounds, but as a parole.




"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"

Carole4's picture

(post #52946, reply #47 of 114)

I haven't followed this story, but is she one of the Manson followers who has cancer? I get all of those followers mixed up, but one of them has cancer. I could google, but am too lazy right now.

In other words, what were the compassionate grounds?

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #52946, reply #48 of 114)

I just Googled - my mistake. She was released on parole.





"And then, because of the transitive reactive Halstead-era seizing properties of the Aboriginal Double Humpback Turtle, I thought, what if I add one teaspoon of clarified monkey paste?" Anonymous blog comment on "America's Test Kitchen"
Carole4's picture

(post #52946, reply #53 of 114)

shy, that was not a condemnation. Unless you are perfect, we all make mistakes. :) But then, I used to have a T-shirt that said I was wrong once......

Maedl's picture

(post #52946, reply #32 of 114)

At the heart of the US, and I believe the British, legal systems is the concept of innocent until proven guilty--and if you are proven guilty you still have the possibility of appeal. It's too bad this case was not appealed because I suspect that justice may not have been done here.

At any rate, what seems to be causing the greatest degree of outrage is the welcome the man received in Libya and that is certainly out of our control.

As for US actions toward Scotland, we can't recall our ambassador or expel their ambassador because our diplomatic relations are not with Scotland but with the UK. I don't think you would advocate recalling our ambassador in London. Recalling ambassadors is generally not a very effective way of expressing displeasure because after the ambassador is withdrawn, that's it. You no longer have a way to communicate with that nation.

Margie
Between the Alps and the Chesapeake Bay:
Where Food and Culture Intersect
www.alpsandbay.blogspot.com
Margie Between the Alps and the Chesapeake Bay: Where Food and Culture Intersect www.alpsandbay.blogspot.com
Biscuit's picture

(post #52946, reply #33 of 114)

At any rate, what seems to be causing the greatest degree of outrage is the welcome the man received in Libya and that is certainly out of our control.


Exactly.  I thought it was disgusting, too, but honestly - nothing we can do about it.


"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

Adele's picture

(post #52946, reply #51 of 114)

At any rate, what seems to be causing the greatest degree of outrage is the welcome the man received in Libya and that is certainly out of our control.


From what I read in the paper this morning, there were no officials or anyone of power to greet him at the airport.  The police had actually run-off a lot of people waiting for him.   Anyway, there wasn't a band playing and government officials saluting him.


But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

Gretchen's picture

(post #52946, reply #52 of 114)

But and so--what did we "see" on TV--a hail to the returning "hero".  It is all in the perception, not the "substance".

Gretchen

Gretchen
ashleyd's picture

(post #52946, reply #8 of 114)

I was going to post on this myself under the heading "Justice or Vengeance", but thought better of it. Some of you may not like this so feel free to leave right now.


First off if he did do it then he should never have been set free, in fact they should have prolonged his life as much as possible so he could have suffered longer.


But


I have followed this case from reasonably well informed sources over the years and although he was found guilty by an apparently impartial jury there are several things in this allegedly clear cut case that don't add up. The first is the implication of Libya, at the time of the tragedy Gaddafi was leading a rebel state and the obvious target for any investigation, but several threads led not to Libya but a little further East, namely to Iran where only shortly before the US had inadvertently downed an Iranian aircraft with hundreds of people on board, so an act of revenge would not have been unexpected. But we'll let that go, and assume that Libyans may have been involved. The only real evidence agains Al-Megrahi was from a Maltese shopkeeper who "remembered" from 6 years previously selling some clothing to a "Libyan", but the same guy had also "identified" at least 4 other potential candidates who were not on trial. In and amongst all this there were the usual political and secret service machinations going on so evidence that might have proved his innocence was simply not presented. His appeal had a good factual basis and may well have eventually succeeded, if not to prove him innocent then to cast serious doubt on his conviction. And don't you think that it is strange that in 20 years only one single man has even been brought to trial, in a plot that must have involved probably dozens of people? Doesn't add up to me.


So my view is did he do it? Probably not. To my mind there is sufficient doubt to justify releasing him to spend the last few months of his life with his family in his own country. Had the case against him been more convincing then he should have stayed in a Scottish jail to die.



Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

MadMom's picture

(post #52946, reply #9 of 114)

Very interesting POV. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Jean's picture

(post #52946, reply #10 of 114)

I'm glad you posted this.  I just read an article where the father of a young woman who was killed is also convinced that Al-Megrahi was not guilty.  The government might not be telling us all they know. :/.


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Marcia's picture

(post #52946, reply #11 of 114)

I'm beginning to sound wacko here, but the government never tells us all it knows, and never has.

I, too, am please that Ashley posted this for it is all new to me.

Regality's picture

(post #52946, reply #12 of 114)

Not long ago I read Grisham's The Innocent Man, the true story of a gross f u c k up of justice.  Because there's no other way for me to justify the release of this man, I'm going to take your possible version as gospel, hide my head in the sand, and feel somewhat at ease with the events.  Thank you.


Edited 8/21/2009 10:37 pm by Regality

Lee's picture

(post #52946, reply #14 of 114)

I hope your hypothesis is correct, othewise a grave injustice has been committed.

ashleyd's picture

(post #52946, reply #15 of 114)

Absolutely.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

courgette's picture

(post #52946, reply #18 of 114)

You said it much better than I ever could.  I just happened to turn on BBC World News and caught this storey and the concept of his innocence. Have not followed the case but the evidence seems to have been tainted.


I do understand that those who lost loved ones want someone to pay, but does it work if he's not the one? He is going to die. I think the hero's welcome could/should have been avoided, but that was not ever going to happen in Libya.


Mo


 

leonap's picture

(post #52946, reply #44 of 114)

Regarding the Libyans celebrating Al-Megrahi's return home, just suppose they think he's innocent? I don't know whether he's guilty or not. But if I thought a fellow American had been wrongly convicted and imprisoned in a foreign land, I would celebrate his return home as well.

Risottogirl's picture

(post #52946, reply #54 of 114)

I also hear from a few Scot friends of mine (one historian, one lawyer, one chef) that there is a common school of thought over there that he wasn't actually guilty and was a scapegoat.

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay