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Florida2's picture


Here is an email making its rounds amongst women. Feel free to email to womensaynopalin@gmail.com per the advice below.


 


Subject: Women Against Sarah Palin

Friends, compatriots, fellow-lamenters, We are writing to you because of the fury and dread we have felt since the announcement of Sarah Palin as the Vice-Presidential candidate for the Republican Party. We believe that this terrible decision has surpassed mere partisanship, and that it is a dangerous farce-on the part of a pandering and rudderless Presidential candidate-that has a real possibility of becoming fact. Perhaps like us, as American women, you share the fear of what Ms. Palin and her professed beliefs and proven record could lead to for ourselves and for our present or future daughters. To date, she is against sex education, birth control, the pro-choice platform, environmental protection, alternative energy development, freedom of speech (as mayor she wanted to ban books and attempted to fire the librarian who stood against her), gun control, the separation of church and state, and polar bears. To say nothing of her complete lack of real preparation to become the second-most-powerful person on the planet. We want to clarify that we are not against Sarah Palin as a woman, a mother, or, for that matter, a parent of a pregnant teenager, but solely as a rash, incompetent, and all together devastating choice for Vice President. Ms. Palin's political views are in every way a slap in the face to the accomplishments that our mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers so fiercely fought for, and that we've so demonstrably benefited from. First and foremost, Ms. Palin does not represent us. She does not demonstrate or uphold our interests as American women. It is presumed that the inclusion of a woman on the Republican ticket could win over women voters. We want to disagree, publicly.


 


 Therefore, we invite you to reply here < womensaynopalin=< mailto:womensaynopalin@gmail.com > with a short, succinct message about why you, as a woman living in this country, do not support this candidate as second-in-command for our nation. Please include your name (last initial is fine), age, and place of residence. We will post your responses on a blog called 'Women Against Sarah Palin,' which we intend to publicize as widely as possible. Please send us your reply at your earliest convenience-the greater the volume of responses we receive, the stronger our message will be. Thank you for your time and action. VIVA! Sincerely, Ellen Rosten womensaynopalin@gmail.com **PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY! If you send this to 20 women in the next hour, you could be blessed with a country that takes your concerns seriously. Stranger things have happened.

Isabelle Rapin, M.D.
Professor, Neurology and Pediatrics (Neurology)
K 807, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
1300 Morris Park Avenue
Bronx NY 10461 USA


Edited 9/11/2008 5:36 pm ET by Florida2

Napie's picture

(post #50848, reply #102 of 161)

At least I‘m honest about myself.

AnnL's picture

(post #50848, reply #86 of 161)

I'm Catholic.  I don't believe creationism should be taught in a school science class.  Maybe philosophy or theology, but not science. 

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

ashleyd's picture

(post #50848, reply #89 of 161)

Oh I don't know, why not teach creationism? Right alongside the flat earth and phlogiston theories. We need more comedy in schools!


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

msm-s's picture

(post #50848, reply #95 of 161)

I have a young friend who is a devout Irish Catholic and teaches science. She is also very intelligent and from a family of intellectual-types. Her curriculum includes a brief section on evolution, and she always gets THE question from conservativer students, here in the Bible Belt; "Are you saying God did not create the world and the Bible is a lie?".

I really like her answer that allows for evolution while satisfying the Creationists: "If you were God, wouldn't you want to create beings who could change and adapt to their surroundings so they could survive?"

ashleyd's picture

(post #50848, reply #96 of 161)

Yes that's neat, and it gets her out of the hole, but it still doesn't help to educate the child. Whether you think Darwinism is just a theory or a scientific truth doesn't alter the fact that demonstrably the Bible version of Creation is wrong. It's a question of whether you believe the whole weight of scientific knowledge or the word of some Jewish mystic living in the Iron Age.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

msm-s's picture

(post #50848, reply #97 of 161)

You have to know your audience, and a child who asks that question of a teacher obviously comes from a background with a closed mind. I think my friend's answer allows the child to learn about and possibly accept evolution without threatening them or sending the message that their family is a bunch of idiots, and without taking anything away from the kids in the class who don't buy Creationism.

I truly do believe we have to be willing to compromise to some extent because we all believe so differently. My friend's answer is the best solution I've seen so far to include the large number of Creationists in her lessons rather than alienate them completely.

Jean's picture

(post #50848, reply #103 of 161)

That's not an answer, it's another question. My answer would be that God didn't intend the Bible to be a science textbook and we shouldn't approach it as one.



A merry heart does good like a medicine: Prov. 22:17



http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
MadMom's picture

(post #50848, reply #104 of 161)

Thank you.  We agree on that.  I believe the Bible instructs us in how we should live our lives, not in how the earth was formed.  Do people honestly believe that anyone 2000 or more years ago was informed enough about quantum physics and evolution to have described them in what was, essentially, a religious document?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

msm-s's picture

(post #50848, reply #105 of 161)

I like your answer, but around here a teacher would be blasted for telling a student what God did or did not intend.

I do think my friend's question was a good "answer". A teacher's job is to make the students think.

MadMom's picture

(post #50848, reply #106 of 161)

I think the sad thing is that there are those who do believe the Bible is a science textbook, and that every word in it is absolutely true, so I can understand your friend's answer. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Jean's picture

(post #50848, reply #107 of 161)

Howard Van Till's book The Fourth Day ... helped me to learn how to read the Bible.


http://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Day-Heavens-Telling-Creation/dp/0802801781/ref=cm_syf_dtl_pop_5


I think it was in the late 1980s that he wrote it and stirred up a huge controversy in our denomination. At the time he was teaching astronomy/physics at our religious college. Interesting times.


It has a lot of science in it that is over my head, but is fascinating reading all the same.




A merry heart does good like a medicine: Prov. 22:17



http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Risottogirl's picture

(post #50848, reply #108 of 161)

Excellent, excellent book. Someone left a copy in a car I rented in Tulsa. I didn't find it until I arrived at my destination 150 miles away. I called the rental car company to tell them (it was new in a bag with receipt, etc.) but no one ever claimed it.


I probably would not have chosen it off a shelf in the library or bookstore, but I had it and there was not much to do while I was working in that little town, so I read it.


Of topic, but have you every seen the little books The Christian Handbook and The Christian Handbook for Pastors? I don't know who wrote them but Augsburg Books publishes them. SO found ratty well used copies of both left in the waiting room at the mechanic shop and just loved them - he isn't very religious at all. (what is it about FOUND books???)


My favorite chapter is the in the one for pastors - How to get out of a traffic ticket ;) It is pretty cute. The illustrations are funny too. The books are not jokes - just everyday faith with some humor.


 


Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Jean's picture

(post #50848, reply #109 of 161)

Glad you liked it too.  I just ordered The Christian Handbook from Amazon used books for a penny plus shipping. Looks interesting. Thanks.



A merry heart does good like a medicine: Prov. 22:17



http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Florida2's picture

(post #50848, reply #110 of 161)

Why not just have the teachers preface evolution theory by saying that people have two ways of understanding how life began, one way is through faith and religious teachings, another way is through science. In school, we will only address the path of understanding lifes origin that science addresses, not the path that understanding life's origin that religion addresses.


Any problem with that, that you can foresee?

Heather's picture

(post #50848, reply #111 of 161)

What is wrong with studying science in school and religion in church? Simple, neat, no complications.

madnoodle's picture

(post #50848, reply #143 of 161)

Amen. 

I believe in compost.


 

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

 

evelyn's picture

(post #50848, reply #112 of 161)

and not all religions share the christian model as the beginning of life.  How would you teach creationism to a pagan or a Buddhist?

There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.
Florida2's picture

(post #50848, reply #116 of 161)

Evelyn, I think you may have misread my first post. I didnt say to teach creationism in school, I suggested letting students know that we will only study the scientific undrestanding of origins of life, and will not be studying the religion's approaches to origin of life.

evelyn's picture

(post #50848, reply #117 of 161)

sorry then,  I did misunderstand.

There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.
SallyBR1's picture

(post #50848, reply #113 of 161)

trying to put those things side by side gives the WRONG impression that it is a matter of personal decision and/or belief to pick one "theory"

a dangerous slope....

"Her green thumb was so black, she couldn't even grow zucchini"



(Glenys, August 2008).
MadMom's picture

(post #50848, reply #114 of 161)

I find it interesting that some religious right wingnuts find it a "slippery slope" if we try to ban assault weapons, but see no similar slippery slope in limiting abortion rights or teaching creationism on a par with evolution. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Florida2's picture

(post #50848, reply #115 of 161)

But, it is indeed a matter of personal decision and belief whether one wants to understand the world through "faith" and religious teachings, or through science. And, I think that those who understand the world and the origins of life "through faith", are just as convinced of that as the correct way to go, as you and I might be "through Science".


Personally, Although I am a highly educated person, and IVY leaGue education at that, I do indeed think that faith has its place in understanding the origins of life. Although I do think that the theory of evolution is compelling, and a very useful theory, and has allowed us to establish many facts, I do not think that it can explain all of or even much of the mysteries of life, such as the concept of the" soul", the question of  how did the universe begin i.e. what happened before the big bang.


(I personally see the hand of and the mind of God in my everyday experiences here on planet earth.( And, having had a near death experience, I am certain about the existence of God and afterlife.) . I believe Albert Einstein himself also shared that he saw the existence of God as unquestionable, interestingly enough.)


I do not think, tho, that public school ought to be in the business of discussing creationism per se. But, alluding to it, as a belief system held by many individuals albeit not by scientists, is not harmful, in my opinion.


Edited 9/14/2008 2:08 pm ET by Florida2

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50848, reply #118 of 161)

I wish I could have written that.  Thank you.  To me creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive.  So God created the earth in 7 days...for those people to understand 3 or 4 thousand years ago.  Maybe 7 days is 500 million years, or more.  Who knows.


But very well said, and thank you.


Jim

SallyBR1's picture

(post #50848, reply #120 of 161)

I am not sure you read my posts, since you did not honor me with a single reply to my previous attempts to contact you, either in public here or by email

at any rate, I replied to Florida's post before reading yours, and my remark about 7 days or thousands of years was written before reading your post.

nothing personal.

"Her green thumb was so black, she couldn't even grow zucchini"



(Glenys, August 2008).
thecooktoo's picture

(post #50848, reply #144 of 161)

Don't believe I have received an email from you, and it's a rare day that goes by that I don't receive at least one email from another forum poster.


Don't even recall what post you are talking about that I didn't respond to.  Sometimes I don't respond just because somebody makes a post and asks me a question.  Sometimes no response is necessary and sometimes the questions are kinda dumb, so I leave them alone as well.


Jim

SallyBR1's picture

(post #50848, reply #145 of 161)

Ha! And here I am worrying for a couple of weeks that I had offended you beyond repair

Ok, I feel better now :-)

"Her green thumb was so black, she couldn't even grow zucchini"



(Glenys, August 2008).
thecooktoo's picture

(post #50848, reply #149 of 161)

Nah, don't you ever worry about damaging this old thing.  Been over a lot rougher roads than you namby-pamby liberals can dish out, but  you are pretty good at it!     ;o)


edited to ad:  Went back through my SPAM filter and didn't find it there either.  Of course, I only check SPAM when somebody tell me they sent something I didn't receive.


Jim


Edited 9/15/2008 10:22 am ET by thecooktoo

SallyBR1's picture

(post #50848, reply #119 of 161)

First of all, the "theory" of evolution is not called "theory" because there is no proof for it. It is a FACT - all you need is to look around for the evidence - in fossils, in the tracking of biochemical systems through molecular biology.

Second, no, it is NOT a matter of choice or faith. You can believe in God and find that he/she is behind the creation of the universe - it does not change the FACT that species arose by evolution from simpler forms.

Creationism is wrong, has no place in schools. Period.

the fact that we do not understand everything in biological systems (or in planetary systems, or in sub-atomic systems) should not be used as a formal proof of the existence of God. People who want to see creationism being taught in schools love to say that because science is unable to explain each little step that took us from A to B, we need to make room for creationism and the "god of the gaps" (this terminology is not mine).

They complain that we do not "see" evolution happening - which is not really the case. In microbiological systems, we do "see" it and we even "play god" by selecting traits we want in them.

I find it appalling that with all the knowledge accumulated in hundreds of years of solid research, still today someone can say "seven days, or thousands of years, it's all a matter of interpretation". No. It is not.

As far as Einstein and his faith - he was a genius, but not the only genius in the world, and not every one of them agrees with his point of view. The fact that he was a brilliant man does not necessarily mean that he got it all right 100% of the time. No one does.

again, faith is a personal matter and I respect people who believe in whatever they were brought up to believe. But please, keep faith issues where they belong: in churches and inside people's homes.

"Her green thumb was so black, she couldn't even grow zucchini"



(Glenys, August 2008).
Florida2's picture

(post #50848, reply #121 of 161)

Sally, please re read my post. Nowhere in it does it say we should teach creationism in School. It just acknowledges that many people use that as a way to understand the origin of life--thats it. It seems remiss for a school not to simply acknowledge that some ppl account for the origins of life thru religious belief rather than thru science.

SallyBR1's picture

(post #50848, reply #122 of 161)

Sorry, I guess I assumed you were for teaching them both side by side.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine, and whenever I have a chance I want to make absolutely, 100% clear that it should not be presented in school as an "alternative" view to creationism.


Edited 9/14/2008 4:30 pm by SallyBR1