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"Intelligent Design:

StevenHB's picture

I haven't been around much lately and it's, sadly, likely to stay that way.


This morning I read the feature article in this week's Time or was it Newsweek talking about the "debate" about teaching "Intelligent Design" alongside evolution in American classrooms.  The President of the United States recently expressed support for the teaching of this religion-masquerading-as-science!


Clearly my values are significantly different than many, many other Americans'.  I can hardly believe that people are talking about such utter bullsh1t in the 21st century.  No wonder our high school students compare so unfavorably with those from other countries.


Thoughts?


Discuss, please.



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
Sondra's picture

(post #43929, reply #31 of 266)

You are so right!  It is NOT Science!! 


We should be a whole lot more worried about the basic R's  of education than an added R (Religion). 


Makes me positively fume!!!

Gretchen's picture

(post #43929, reply #224 of 266)

This morning on On the Media there was a followup about John Kestenbaum's show about the scientists debating ID.  It is interesting. You should be able to listen to it later today--or maybe on a rebroadcast today.

Gretchen

Gretchen
ashleyd's picture

(post #43929, reply #225 of 266)

An interesting point of view from Richard Dawkins, one of my favourite science writers, in The Guardian today.


Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Billll's picture

(post #43929, reply #226 of 266)

Great article on MSNBC.com by Alan Boyle on the genome comparison between the human and the chimpanzee.  Done by Robert Waterson, geneticist at U. of Washington.  Major confirmation of Darwins 1871 claim of a common ancester.  Probably won't change any minds here though. 

ashleyd's picture

(post #43929, reply #227 of 266)

You're right, probably won't change any minds here as most will back, or at least give some credence to, overwhelming scientific evidence for the theory of evolution. Those who create, or subscribe to, other dumb theories are a lost cause anyway. That's what I like about Dawkins, he tells it like he sees it, and if he sees it is stupid you're going to know about it.


Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

JoeB2's picture

(post #43929, reply #228 of 266)

TracyK's picture

(post #43929, reply #229 of 266)

OK, maybe I'm just dense, but what the heck are you saying with this post? Do you not believe the article, or do you think it proves some point of yours?

Squirrels are just rats in cuter outfits.
       -- Carrie Bradshaw

MadMom's picture

(post #43929, reply #230 of 266)

It sounds to me like "survival of the fittest."  Isn't that Darwin's point?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

JoeB2's picture

(post #43929, reply #231 of 266)

Not to imply it is true, but it sort of flies in the face of the generic monolithic icon that represents "evolution" with the monkey progressively morphing into a human.

Figgered that to be obvious, perhaps not.

ashleyd's picture

(post #43929, reply #232 of 266)

it sort of flies in the face of the generic monolithic icon that represents "evolution" with the monkey progressively morphing into a human.


It sort of does nothing of the kind. Nobody ever claimed that evolution was singular and linear.



Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

TracyK's picture

(post #43929, reply #233 of 266)

"Obvious" if you take your knowledge of the theory of evolution from t-shirt slogans, maybe. I think most people realize that an iconic representation of the evolution of apes to humans is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.


Squirrels are just rats in cuter outfits.
       -- Carrie Bradshaw


Edited 9/2/2005 11:37 am ET by TracyK

CookiM0nster's picture

(post #43929, reply #234 of 266)

If you want to make a case against the theory of evolution, that's fine, but your arguments would be a lot more convincing if you took the trouble to actually understand the theory you are arguing against first.

JoeB2's picture

(post #43929, reply #235 of 266)

I'm just posting a relevant URL that contradicts a couple of common assumptions of evolution, thats all.

You ladies are the "experts". Feel free to criticize ABC's scientific credentials to your heart's content.

Gretchen's picture

(post #43929, reply #237 of 266)

HOW does it contradict?

Gretchen

Gretchen
AJ12754's picture

(post #43929, reply #238 of 266)

Oh jeez -- here you go again.


You keep arguing against a version of evolution that exists only in your imagination. 

Cave obdurationem cordis

JoeB2's picture

(post #43929, reply #239 of 266)

holy hell forget I posted. Discussion with you people is about as fun as ramming an icepick into my temple... and certainly less informative.

diddidit's picture

(post #43929, reply #241 of 266)

You source of info about Evolution appears to be the straw-man put forward by dolts like Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, and sites like Answersingenesis. That's roughly equivalent to asking a Chinese peasant about the finer points of English grammar.

did

AJ12754's picture

(post #43929, reply #242 of 266)

It is less informative because you have no wish to be informed.


People have tried repeatedly to clarify for you what the actual theory of natural selection involves as well as the fact that evolutionary biologists are well aware of the anomalies in the current theory and are the people who currently offer the most complete critiques of the theory of evolution.


You persist in acting as if those who know the theory best are somehow afraid to consider intelligent design as a reasonable alternative theory. 


It is not that they refuse to consider it -- it is that they are well aware that intelligent design simply doesn't meet the basic criteria even to be considered scientific much less a scientific theory (in previous postings I have explained the specifics of how it fails to meet the criteria -- the points made in those postings you failed to respond to in favor of repeating more of the same tired accusations).


If you don't want to listen, don't act as if others are somehow disrespecting you or failing to take you seriously or respond to your points.  That is disrespectful.


Edited 9/3/2005 5:44 pm ET by aj12754

Cave obdurationem cordis

AnnL's picture

(post #43929, reply #243 of 266)

Joe,


As I mentioned before, I am glad that you post, since you are often the lone dissenting voice here.  But, come on. You posted a url with no comment as to why.  Then you claim that the article  "...contradicts a couple of common assumptions of evolution, thats all", but you provide no argument as to why and what you think this article contradicts.  A few people try to point out to you why the article does not contradict anything about evolutionary theory, but you won't listen, don't provide any further discussion, just have a little temper tantrum and accuse everyone else of not participating in a discussion.  If you have something to say, say it, discuss it. 


AnnL
Transitions Farm
Gardening, cooking, and riding
in Central Mass.

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Biscuit's picture

(post #43929, reply #244 of 266)

You know what, everyone?  I think this discussion has really run its course.  Let's stop now.   Even though I disagree with Joe on EVERYTHING (G), I actually kinda love him and enjoy him (not sure why, Joe, we really are polar opposites! (lol)) and I think he's been the odd man out long enough.  Let's all go to the bar and get a round of drinks and talk about something else, shall we? 


So sayeth The Biscuit, who will have a margarita on the rocks

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

shywoodlandcreature's picture

(post #43929, reply #245 of 266)

Vodka martini for me, please. Dry, straight up, with extra olives.





"...very little has ever been accomplished by complacent people." Billmon


http://costofwar.com/

TracyK's picture

(post #43929, reply #246 of 266)

Big fat gin & tonic for me, LOTS of lime. And make it Bombay Sapphire. Yum.

Squirrels are just rats in cuter outfits.
       -- Carrie Bradshaw

MadMom's picture

(post #43929, reply #247 of 266)

Room for a rummy there?  Maybe a rum and tonic?  Just a squeeze of lime, please.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Jean's picture

(post #43929, reply #249 of 266)

I'll have the same thing, please, but on the rocks.

Veni, vidi, velcro        I came,  I  saw,  I stuck around.


http://www.thebreastcancersite.com

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Risottogirl's picture

(post #43929, reply #250 of 266)

Ummm...does this bar serve any GOOD wine? Because I really prefer that. But in a serious pinch, I'll take a gin and tonic, svp.

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor


Bobby Flay

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Jillsifer's picture

(post #43929, reply #248 of 266)

I'm going to officially pass on the alcohol, but if some single-malt Scotch ended up in my glass instead of my usual straight, unsweetened iced tea, I would not object.

 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

Jean's picture

(post #43929, reply #251 of 266)

Since when is single-malt Scotch not considered to be alcohol?


Veni, vidi, velcro        I came,  I  saw,  I stuck around.


http://www.thebreastcancersite.com

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
diddidit's picture

(post #43929, reply #253 of 266)

Because it's uisge baugh, the Water of Life.

No mere alcohol is this! Ach, where's me Glenlivet?

Hmph.

did

Jillsifer's picture

(post #43929, reply #259 of 266)

Oh, it's alcohol, all right. I was saying I "officially" pass (meaning I wasn't going to ORDER any), but wouldn't look askance at somebody who spiked my tea while I was in the bathroom or something.

 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

Jean's picture

(post #43929, reply #260 of 266)

You are a rascal.

Veni, vidi, velcro        I came,  I  saw,  I stuck around.


http://www.thebreastcancersite.com

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need