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Health care (con't)

PeterDurand's picture

Looking for comments.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574443472658898710.html

Cheers,

Peter

 


Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Gretchen's picture

(post #53215, reply #1 of 77)

I didn't read it completely yet, BUT as far as GPs/pedes/internists being increased, this was the "gateway" when HMOs took over--you did have to have a referral.  Specialists already took that hit a long time ago.


And as far as being "punished" for ordering too many tests--I don't think anyone said this was going to be easy.


I commend to everyone's TV watching the series on medical care in various countries that Jim Leherer is doing. I think tonight's might even have the Canadian system as part of it.


Gretchen
Gretchen
Adele's picture

(post #53215, reply #2 of 77)

Looking for comments. :  You look very nice today.


But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

Gretchen's picture

(post #53215, reply #3 of 77)

A "twofer"--comment and compliment!!   ;o)

Gretchen

Gretchen
PeterDurand's picture

(post #53215, reply #4 of 77)

*blush*

 


Better life through Zoodles and poutine...

AnnL's picture

(post #53215, reply #5 of 77)

My only comment is that the Baucus bill is not necessarily going to be the final bill.   The House will produce a bill, then there'll be another committee formed that will include the White House (Obama) and that's when the final nitty gritty will get put together.

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

hambiscuit's picture

(post #53215, reply #6 of 77)

Exactly! As I've said before, the fat lady didn't sing yet.

PeterDurand's picture

(post #53215, reply #8 of 77)

So in your system a bill is passed where no one knows what the final outcome will be? Sounds pretty loose and way too trusting.

Cheers,

Peter

 


Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #10 of 77)

So, what you are saying is that in your system, everyone knows what the final outcome will be of every bill before it is passed?  Perhaps you could send  some of those fortune tellers down here, LOL.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

PeterDurand's picture

(post #53215, reply #12 of 77)

<<So, what you are saying is that in your system,..>>

Uh, where did I say that?

 


Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #13 of 77)

You didn't say it, you implied it when you said that in our system bills were voted on without being sure of the outcome and commented that was pretty trusting and loose.  I merely pointed out that evidently you think your system is different.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

thecooktoo's picture

(post #53215, reply #14 of 77)

I was just listening to an interview with a local businessman that had just met with his insurance advisor (not insurance company, but an independent advisor).  He was told that if the current Senate and House bills would pass they way they are now, the cost of his insurance coverage for his employees would go from $10,500 a month to $92,000 a month. 


Now we can begin to understand the promise that if you have insurance and you are satisfied with it you can keep it.  If this kind of estimate is true, to even a slight degree, then the employers will begin dropping current insurance plans like the proverbial hot potatoes.  Then the only choice will be the government option.


Not really looking forward to this.


Jim

MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #16 of 77)

Jim, assuming this estimate is true (and I have my serious doubts about the validity of it) did the gentleman say how much his insurance coverage for his employees would go up without universal health care?  And will his policy coverage immediately increase from approximatly $10K to nine times that, or will it increase over time, and if so, what is that time frame.  Perhaps this just points out the need for universal health care, along with regulation of the insurance industry?  You and I, who have decent health care coverage, are already subsidizing the cost for the millions without any coverage at all.  Is this cost just going to go away if we ignore them?  Perhaps we should just kill them all.  Just think of the savings, in health care, in insurance, in social security.  They're probably all just poor and lazy, anyway, or they would have the same health care we have, right?


If you can't recognize my sarcasm, you can at least recognize that we need to do something.  So far, all I've heard from the right is scare stories, rather than serious proposals to cover everyone...or do they simply not care whether everyone is covered or not?




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
thecooktoo's picture

(post #53215, reply #20 of 77)

Oh no, your sarcasm is very apparent. 


The issue was that a company owner had been advised that his insurace costs were going to go up by 900% - did not indicate atime frame, but what difference does that make...900% over one year or 10 years is enough to make the business owner drop the insurance. 


My point in bringing it up was that a promise was made that if you have insurance you like you can keep it.  We also were promised that if you make less than 250K a year you will not have a tax increase...not even a dollar!.  The way the health care bill is going that promise will be kept, you can keep you insurance...but he did not promise that employers will be able to afford to keep it.  That's the issue.  The fees and fines in the bill as it currently stands are not called taxes, but that's exactly what they are.


Now I do think that until the final bill comes out we will not know what's going to be in it; but then it will be too late to do anything about it. 


Jim

Gretchen's picture

(post #53215, reply #21 of 77)

So perhaps you can keep your insurance. And perhaps the insurance companies will be made to truly compete, cut their administrative costs,  and this will hold costs down.  It is pretty much guaranteed that if NOTHING is done that costs WILL go up.  So there.


There is so d___d much misinformation or noninformation going around it is sickening.


Gretchen
Gretchen
hambiscuit's picture

(post #53215, reply #25 of 77)

I'm willing to bet my retirement money that this is a misunderstanding or pure BS. More death panel talk....

kathymcmo's picture

(post #53215, reply #27 of 77)

I'm still trying to grasp the claim of $10,500 per month for a policy now. Unless that's for family coverage (employee, spouse and 2 or more kids) I have a hard time believing that is the cost for an employee.


I also don't get how an insurance broker could predict now, with any degree of certainty, what the cost would be if a bill passes, because there are several bills being floated and they haven't settled yet on what basic benefits would be required.


Sounds more like speculation than anything firm.

ashleyd's picture

(post #53215, reply #28 of 77)

It's not the cost for an employee, its the cost for the employees.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

kathymcmo's picture

(post #53215, reply #29 of 77)

Oh! Well then I guess we need to know how many employees the fellow has before we recoil in horror.


Thanks for the clarification.

hambiscuit's picture

(post #53215, reply #32 of 77)

$10,500 for all employees of a business is within reason, unless he only has 3 employees. ;-/  The interview sounds like something that would be on the Fred Thompson radio show. 

MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #33 of 77)

...or Rush Limbaugh, or Glen Beck.  First, I cannot imagine any responsible insurance representative threatening a 900% increase in rates.  Most thinking people realize that rates have already gone up far ahead of the rate of inflation, but this is simply stupid.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

ashleyd's picture

(post #53215, reply #34 of 77)

Just as a matter of passing interest Waitrose (well known British supermarket) has withdrawn advertising from Sky (satellite provider) because it carries Fox on which Glenn Beck made some rather unsavoury comments about British healthcare.



Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Napie's picture

(post #53215, reply #35 of 77)

The only question I have for you is when was the last time you priced or purchased heath insurance for a small business?  Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it is not happening.  A small ($15 million/yr revenue, 45 employees) company I consult to was quoted a 650% increase last week, my advice is to drop the coverage, they really do not want to but the increase will shut them down. 


What would you recommend they do?


I'm not being snotty here, but this is a real issue, there are a lot of folks weighing in on this that have no real experence with the issue and as Gretchen stated a lot of misinformation is getting tossed around that muddies he water.

MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #36 of 77)

Perhaps I would recommend that they campaign for universal health care and more insurance regulation.  A 650% raise in anything is unconscionable.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Napie's picture

(post #53215, reply #42 of 77)

While I do not totally disagree, the end result of this situation is going to be a single payer system and the promise of “if you like your insurance you’ll get to keep it” is gone. I know a lot of folks on Medicare that will see their coverage go down.


 


I just want to see those in congress, the courts, federal employees and the occupants of the White House have EXACTLY the same coverage they want to force on us and it they want more/better coverage, fine, buy it just like I’ll have to.


 


BTW, that company I did the work for, if they were allowed to buy coverage from another state would get the same coverage for LESS but due to government regulations alas they are prevented from shopping there…  Due to frozen credit markets, the continuing bad economy and little progress in improvements from the government my final recommendation to the family is to close the operation, lay off 40 people and live a quiet modest life of the meager proceeds, hell of an end to a great little organization.  I waived my final fee and walked out damn near in tears.

PeterDurand's picture

(post #53215, reply #44 of 77)

Oh my, you folks are going through a gut retching time with this issue. I do not know the details of the proposed legislation and am not affected. My $0.02 is beware of laws that would forbid you to spend your after tax money on the care you want. I speak from experience.

Peter

 
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...


Edited 10/8/2009 11:17 pm by PeterDurand

RuthWells's picture

(post #53215, reply #45 of 77)

“if you like your insurance you’ll get to keep it”

This is a misleading statement, regardless, as most employers can't (or won't be able to) afford to keep the current plans at renewal time without some kind of reform. I'm shopping our company's group plan right now, as our current carrier's renewal increase is over 20%, and my broker reports that they're seeing, on average, increases of 20-30%. Insurance is going to get priced out of the general marketplace without some kind of reform.

Ruth Wells

"Gardening is the only unquestionably useful job."
 - G.B. Shaw

www.lemonade-and-kidneys.blogspot.com

www.ruthssweetpleasures.com

http://www.pkdcure.org/Default.aspx?TabI...

MadMom's picture

(post #53215, reply #46 of 77)

The religious right doesn't care.  If insurance gets priced out of the market, so be it.  If the average person can't afford health care, that's tough.  All they care about is seeing Obama take a hit on this.  They'll worry about the rest of us later, if at all.  I'm sick of all the lies, distortions, and scare tactics.  If they have a better idea, I have yet to hear it.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

RuthWells's picture

(post #53215, reply #48 of 77)

There's just so much intellectual dishonesty -- on both sides -- in this debate, it makes me crazy.

Ruth Wells


"Gardening is the only unquestionably useful job."
 - G.B. Shaw


www.lemonade-and-kidneys.blogspot.com



www.ruthssweetpleasures.com

http://www.pkdcure.org/Default.aspx?TabId=1182&ParticipantID=316&Type=1

Ruth Wells

"Gardening is the only unquestionably useful job."
 - G.B. Shaw

www.lemonade-and-kidneys.blogspot.com

www.ruthssweetpleasures.com

http://www.pkdcure.org/Default.aspx?TabI...

Gretchen's picture

(post #53215, reply #47 of 77)

Without saying "that's what I said earlier", that IS what I said.  AND the people against health care reform just will not realize that this is the exact problem. We cannot as a country afford NOT to reform our healthcare system. Thank you for putting it exactly on the line as someone who is dealing directly with a part of the need for insurance carriers to be competitive.


Since they won't do it on their own, the government must step in and take part in it--not unlike anti-trust legislation long ago.


Gretchen
Gretchen
RuthWells's picture

(post #53215, reply #49 of 77)

Sorry to be repetitive -- I hadn't read the whole thread.

But I do live this every year when our company's plan comes up for renewal. In addition to my PKD, we have one other employee with a fairly serious pre-existing condition, and our rates skyrocket every year. Our tactics for dealing with it have included changing carriers every year, getting in on lower, "intro" rates for the first year, then baling when the 25% renewal comes in. It's not fair to the employees, creates a great deal of administrative BS for both us and the insurance companies, but it's an untenable situation.

Ruth Wells

"Gardening is the only unquestionably useful job."
 - G.B. Shaw

www.lemonade-and-kidneys.blogspot.com

www.ruthssweetpleasures.com

http://www.pkdcure.org/Default.aspx?TabI...