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Guardian Article

bonnieruth's picture

This is as thoughtful an analysis as I have seen of what is wrong with American voters, whom I increasingly see as not so much stupid as character-flawed.  They have a willful ignorance that they are proud of, and it goes deep in our culture, maybe rooted in the Protestant Reformation and the doctrine that we didn't need Church authority to reveal God to us - "just plain folks" could do it fine for themselves, thank you.  Definitely it is anti-intellectual.  But on top of that, we are jingoistic to what I would call a point of extreme narcissism.  These are my own comments, not all contained in the article.  Please everyone read the article, and if you agree, pass it on to someone not already in the choir.


p://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/12-1 

MadMom's picture

(post #50876, reply #1 of 57)

I tried to read the article, but got a "page not found" notice.  Could you possibly cut and paste?


Edited to say that I cut off the "-1" in your link and got an article about Title 7.  Was that the article you were attempting to link?




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!


Edited 9/14/2008 3:51 pm ET by MadMom

bonnieruth's picture

(post #50876, reply #2 of 57)

No, the Title 7 article was what you get without the "1".  I will try to cut and paste but wonder why the link didn't work.   This article is so worth reading; I will keep at it until I get it sent.

roz's picture

(post #50876, reply #3 of 57)

Is it this article, bonnieruth?

http://tinyurl.com/5opc7o

Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Do your best. Don Miguel Ruiz
bonnieruth's picture

(post #50876, reply #4 of 57)

It is!  I was just trying for a third time to paste it; it would copy into my post, but the post wouldn't post.  Thank you so much, and how did you do that????

roz's picture

(post #50876, reply #5 of 57)

I donno. I use this site sometimes if the URL is way too long.

http://tinyurl.com/create.php?url=about:blank

Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Do your best. Don Miguel Ruiz
MadMom's picture

(post #50876, reply #7 of 57)

Thank you.  Very interesting article.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

ashleyd's picture

(post #50876, reply #6 of 57)

Sort of reinforces my point about objective analysis taking place from outside.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Gary's picture

(post #50876, reply #8 of 57)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/10/uselections2008.barackobama

The people who gave us golf and called it a game are the same people who gave us bag pipes and called it music and haggis and called it food.

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50876, reply #25 of 57)

I read all the thread before I went back and read the article.  Then I read a lot of the following comments that readers had posted.  If you have not read some of those you need to.


Quite frankly, I don't care what the Brits or any other Europeans thinks of us.  If it were not for the US all of them would be speaking German now anyway.  At least that way they would have something in common.


It's kinda like my brother when we were growing up...we fought all the time, I was older, he was bigger...so most fights ended in a draw with a bloody nose on one side or the other.  But don't  you dare hurt by brother, or hurt me.  The wrath of God would be upon you for daring to touch my brother, or from him for me.


We can fight amongst ourselves, but watch out if, as an outsider, you attack us, verbally or otherwise.


I assure you that if John McCain is elected, GB and Europe will not close down our bases, will not evict our military, will not refuse our money, tourists or trade.  And they may want to be very careful about incurring the wrath of the American People.  We might be slow to anger, but they may not want to waken a sleeping tiger.  Seems like I've heard that somewhere in the past.  If you look at what's happened to Obama, at this point in the election cycle, it appears to me that people are beginning to react to his world view and pre-swearing in parade through Europe.


JMHO.


Jim

Gary's picture

(post #50876, reply #26 of 57)

I'm sure sure to whom you wanted to address your comments. I just posted the complete link for the convenience of bonnieruth and others.

The people who gave us golf and called it a game are the same people who gave us bag pipes and called it music and haggis and called it food.

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50876, reply #29 of 57)

Sorry Gary, should have been addressed to all.  Sometimes my senility takes over in the morning.


Jim

AnnL's picture

(post #50876, reply #27 of 57)

 ...but they may not want to waken a sleeping tiger.


Jim, we are NOT a sleeping tiger!  Our military has been sorely depleted during this senseless war in Iraq!  Has it not occurred to you that we just might need some of these European countries to help us?  Like, the allies we have had in Iraq?  In Afghanistan?  If we piss everyone off, they won't care if we have another horrible terrorist attack like 9/11.  We'll be on our own, fighting an enemy we can't even find (hello, Osama bin Laden, come out, come out where ever you are) let alone defeat. 


After 9/11 we got help and advise from GB and Isreal and possibly others on how to increase security and decrease the threat of other terrorist attacks.  Lots of other ways/times/places that other nations have helped and supported us throughout history.  You really think we can survive in this global world without allies?


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50876, reply #30 of 57)

What I was referring to was the American People.  That is the sleeping tiger.  I know that you don't want to get the American People pissed at you, no matter who or what you are.  We may be obese, stupid, uneducated, knuckle dragging rednecks (as Napie would say), but don't get us pissed at you.  The Europeans have taken our money and our military support with very little contributions in kind, for 50 years. 


Trust me, they need us a lot more than we need them.  Now that the cold war is "over" maybe we should just pull all of our troops back to the mainland US.  From all of Europe, all of the middle east all of the far east.  See how long it will take those economies to break down and fall apart without the US Military people, payroll and rent payments.


And by the way, I don't really include Britain in that group, just the mainland European nations for the most part.  And Israel is one of the few true friends we have overseas.


Jim


 


Jim

roz's picture

(post #50876, reply #31 of 57)

i am not an economic genius, but this article is in direct relation to what happens in the US happens in the world. Where will it end?

http://tinyurl.com/6lrcyu

Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Do your best. Don Miguel Ruiz
Napie's picture

(post #50876, reply #9 of 57)

I do love to read the opinion of people from outside the US.  However I do not in the least bit care what they think and given that they still return to us to bail them out when things go wrong, or the fact that their birth rates are so low they are going extinct soon, why should I? Their opinion of what is, as you put it, “wrong” with American voters is of no interest to me.  


 


I’m also so glad that you have passed judgment on the American public as “character flawed” because they do not agree with your world view.  I am quite sure they are intelligent enough even if you don’t think so.  Based on the history I have studied those “just plain folk” have done a pretty good job of making this world a better place.  Sorry you feel otherwise.  I’m sure there are plenty of places in Western Europe that would welcome you and your views.

ashleyd's picture

(post #50876, reply #10 of 57)

You really do revel in your ignorance don't you?


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

evelyn's picture

(post #50876, reply #11 of 57)

the fact that you don't care about what the rest of the world thinks is your own undoing, Napie, and I mean every Napie out there.  Like it or not, with the information revolution, the Global Village is very much in existence and it is no longer about either YOU or me.  Your attitude dismays me.  I did not know that there were people like you out there, so ready to dismiss me.

There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.
Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #12 of 57)

Evelyn sweetie, use the ignore button. Your blood pressure will thank you.

I will add that he's just not worth it.

I believe in champagne...


Edited 9/15/2008 5:35 am by Syrah

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

evelyn's picture

(post #50876, reply #13 of 57)

Claire, I don't feel my blood pressure rising...only a very melancholy awareness that there are people on our planet today who don't give a monkey's a$$ about other PEOPLE who are affected by their own policy.  Dismay.  That's what I feel.  It's the right word.  And I won't ignore Napie because maybe one day I'll get through to Napie (and I don't mean him  specifically). 


Thanks for caring, though.  (((((Claire)))))


There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.
Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #14 of 57)

Evelyn, there are a lot of people who don't give a flying fig about other people. I don't know that you can fix apathy - it's a matter of waiting for what comes around to come around.

I do appreciate your idealism though, I wish more people were as passionate but just as respectful as you are.

I believe in champagne...

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

AnnL's picture

(post #50876, reply #15 of 57)

It's not apathy, he actually does make efforts to read and learn.  However, he twists everything around to fit his own self-centered, childish model of the world.  Same as why he doesn't want to pay taxes--the money is his, he worked hard for it, and to heck with other people who haven't had the same success he has.  It's sad, but he's not unique. 

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #16 of 57)

Perhaps social apathy would have been a better phrase.

I maintain, that if there is any concern for any human other than himself, it is very well concealed.

I believe in champagne...

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

AnnL's picture

(post #50876, reply #17 of 57)

Well, his wife and daughter.  Social apathy is a good term.  :-)

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #18 of 57)

Semantics, but yes of course they are relevant.

I believe in champagne...

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

AnnL's picture

(post #50876, reply #20 of 57)

I meant that sarcastically, tongue firmly in cheek!   Sorry.  :-)


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #21 of 57)

Woops my sarcastrometer must be on the blink.

I believe in champagne...

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

kathymcmo's picture

(post #50876, reply #32 of 57)

Or narcissism?

Syrah's picture

(post #50876, reply #33 of 57)

Perhaps. It's good to know that more than one label applies.

I believe in champagne...

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

Napie's picture

(post #50876, reply #19 of 57)

Please understand that there are a lot of us out there who truly believe what someone in GB thinks is not the driving factor of how we should vote or conduct our lives.  I know Ashley believes me ignorant and you think I’m a knuckle dragger but some of us still place American sovereignty above all other considerations, “global villages” notwithstanding.  And the fact that they will call us ignorant rednecks and be dismayed at the way we vote only strengthens our resolve to not take their opinions into consideration.


 


You called us “character flawed”, and then think I should just take that insult because you are intellectually superior?   It’s just fine for you to call me names?  I take great pride in being just plain folk.  You know the kind who operate the military that bails the rest of the worlds a**s out of trouble when it hits, (who else could have mounted rescue efforts after the tsunami in the Indian Ocean? England with its pitiful excuse for a navy? Without those plain folks you talk about none of that would have happened). The ones who have built the finest standard of living the world has ever known?  You should get out of your ivory tower and mingle with the commoners and get a bit of perspective.  I truly pity you that your view is so narrow and you know so little about the people in your own country.

AnnL's picture

(post #50876, reply #22 of 57)

I truly pity you that your view is so narrow...


Uhm, considering you refuse to consider anyone except yourself and this country (and this country pretty much only in terms of what it does for you), this is really funny!   


and you know so little about the people in your own country.


You don't even bother to pay attention to who you're talking to! 


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux