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Book: West's Last Chance

Florida2's picture

I am midway through this book. Although some of it is disagreeable, basically it is a very interesting read, and  thought provoking, if you are looking for a non fiction book to read. Its easy reading too.

Canuck's picture

(post #53468, reply #1 of 37)

What's it about? I'm a nonfiction fan.

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #2 of 37)

The author, who is Conservative (But I wont hold it against him), speaks about a clash of civilizations (his term). He talks about radical Islamists and their insistence upon transporting their culture of fundamentalism to Europe.


He writes about the precarious problems in France and Britain at this time. There is a loud, aggressive fundamentalist population who is insisting upon being allowed to live under sha'ria law in those countries. He speaks about their impact upon the political process of Europe, especially France and Britain.


Moderate Muslims are afraid to publicly disagree becasue the radical Muslims have threatened harm, and in some cases, have killed dissidents.


He speaks about the impact of some of the killings (e.g. Theo Van Gogh who spoke out agains the treatment of Women in fundamentalist Muslim culture; the bombing in Spain) upon the general non Muslim population of England and France, and how there is a disconnect between the populace and some of the PC elements of the culture.


He feels that tolerance is a good trait, except when it paints a person into a corner of not speaking out against a group such as the radical Muslims,  for fear of looking intolerant. He makes many cogent points, and I do not do him justice trying to summarize it here.


While one might disagree with some of what he says, (and some of it does seem intolerant) he still has some very interesting observations that cannot help but affect the way one views the news and the problems in the World today. It certainly has for me.

kathymcmo's picture

(post #53468, reply #3 of 37)

What is the author's name? Sounds interesting.

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #7 of 37)

The author is Tony Blankley. I will forewarn you that sometimes he can be distasteful to this liberal, but it's worth continuing to read because some of his ideas are very interesting. I did skip the chapter (I think its the second one) where he projects into the future and describes what it would be like if Islamist fundamentalists prevail in Europe. I'll revisit it after I finish the book though.


 


One of the things that worries me is that the general population could easily shift into a fascist mode in an attempt to purge the country of Muslims, radical and otherwise, as a way to preserve their own culture and resist sha'ria law and other Radical Muslim cultural imports.


Edited 11/17/2009 8:46 pm ET by Florida2

Jean's picture

(post #53468, reply #4 of 37)

When you finish that, read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.


A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #6 of 37)

Ah. He referenced her in his book.

Risottogirl's picture

(post #53468, reply #27 of 37)

That was an excellent book. I highly recommend it.

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Canuck's picture

(post #53468, reply #5 of 37)

That sounds terrific. I will put it on hold, as well as the one Jean mentions below. Thank you.


 

BonnieinHolland's picture

(post #53468, reply #8 of 37)

I am extremely liberal and agree with almost everything written there about Muslim culture in Europe.  It is possible to be both and to not actually be 'intolerant'.  If you ever saw Christiane Amanpour's CNN documentary about fundamentalist Muslims (she did one on fundamentalist Jews and Christians as well), you would have seen these radical Muslims (in England mostly, for her documentary) clearly speaking their hatred of non-Muslims, their desire to take over the political, religious and judicial systems of Europe, and such.  It shakes a person up to hear the depth of their feeling.  They literally hold nothing back, even when speaking in front of the press.  And, though not the majority of Muslims, they are fully capable of using mosques throughout Europe to convert others to their views.   For the most part, European governments, including Holland (where I live - where Hirsi Ali and Theo van Gogh come/came from -- they made the movie together that ticked off Muslims and led to his death), find it politically too sensitive, and thus impossible, to develop policies and take action.  Most governments live under the ideas of 'live and let live' and 'with enough time, we'll all get along together'.  But that is not what the radical Muslims want and they freely say so.  It makes for an extremely difficult situation.  cheers, Bonnie

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #9 of 37)

Thank you for writing Bonnie. That is exactly one of the points the author makes. He discusses the inaction by the governments.


While there are fundamentalist Christians and Jews, of course the difference is that they are not waging a violent holy war. Nor do they encourage individual adherents to go on their own personal violent jihad against others.


The inaction by the government concerns me. I worry that the "ordinary people" of the nations will become frightened enough, and tired of their govt's inaction, that they will elect fascist governments to deal with this problem, since their usual governments turn a blind eye to it.


While he is impatient with liberals, he does point out that one can be a tolerant liberal and still deal with this problem, by being intolerant of these Muslim radical ideas. Afterall, these "ideas" are the antithesis of liberalism-- they are oppressive of women, allow men to kill women with impunity, they are intolerant of any religion but their own. Those are surely upsetting ideas to any liberal. They surely upset me, and I am a liberal.

MadMom's picture

(post #53468, reply #10 of 37)

While there are fundamentalist Christians and Jews, of course the difference is that they are not waging a violent holy war. Nor do they encourage individual adherents to go on their own personal violent jihad against others.


What about the anti abortionists who murder abortion doctors, one while he was attending church?  If this isn't a personal violent jihad, I don't know what is.




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #12 of 37)

One of the differences is that it is not a world wide loose organization of Christian's whose intent is to disrupt and kill in order to impose their own laws (not just one law, but an entire system of laws) upon the nations and to wipe off the map (kill) any non-CHristian believers. They are also not attempting to use nations as a base to wage terrorist attacks upon non-beliver nations.


A corollary would be if evangelical Christians had a loose organization of people throughout the world and were obtaining weapons and nuclear weapons to launch against non-believers and non-Christian nations, until those nations were composed solely of evangelical Christians. It would be like they were using violence to return to a rule of law found perhaps in the Middle Ages of  Europe.


While the anti-abortion violence is abhorrent, it is not in the same league as the fundamentalist Muslim threat.


I think you might find the book very interesting, and if nothing else, thought provoking.

MadMom's picture

(post #53468, reply #15 of 37)

I agree with you that fundamentalist Christians are not part of a world-wide organization intent on obtaining nuclear weapons (at least, I hope they aren't)), but many believe that if you don't agree with their beliefs, you are going to hell (similar to the Muslim belief that if you don't agree with their teachings, you are an infidel), and many believe they have a duty and an obligation to bring non-believers (that's anyone who doesn't agree with them) to the true faith, as defined by them.  I think they are a major threat to us, whether we would like to think so or not.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #16 of 37)

yes, they think they have a duty to bring us into the Christian evangelical fold. However, I do not think (other then a few crackpots) that there is an organized attempt to do this throught violence.

Heather's picture

(post #53468, reply #19 of 37)

From last night's Rachel Maddow show:
"And then, there‘s this biblical quote making the rounds in anti-Obama circles. As reported this week in the “Christian Science Monitor,” “Pray for President Obama, Psalm 109, verse eight.” What‘s psalm 109 version eight? Well, it reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Let his days be few. It‘s followed immediately by another verse, “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”

This is followed by an interview with Frank Schaeffer, a former Christian evangelist. He sees the use of this quote as a call for some nut to take action against the President--the same thing that has happened with abortion providers.

Here is the text of the interview.

kathymcmo's picture

(post #53468, reply #20 of 37)

That is sickening.

Heather's picture

(post #53468, reply #21 of 37)

DH and I were horrified when we saw that it night.

kathymcmo's picture

(post #53468, reply #22 of 37)

It never ceases to amaze me what some people do in the name of religion.

MadMom's picture

(post #53468, reply #24 of 37)

What is the old saying, that more wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other cause.  When will we learn?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Marcia's picture

(post #53468, reply #25 of 37)

In the name of religion, yes, but it's still tribalism, which is a major cause of all of the woes in the world. JMO, you understand.

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #23 of 37)

That is horrific and I would expect the FBI to investigate this incident. They surely would if a lone person was sending a letter to the Congress or WH with this message.


The American People must stand up and be counted and call out these messages, whether they are against Obama, or Bush or whoever. But in all fairness, not enough people stood up and protested when the arab threw a shoe at Bush. Not nearly enough.

BonnieinHolland's picture

(post #53468, reply #17 of 37)

I remember now that in the CNN documentary about fundamentalist Christians, one of the things that Christiane Amanpour showed were the camps that Christians kids were sent to, and these particular camps were very busy with giving the teenagers a radical Christian view of the world.  Sorry I can't remember more details about that.  But it is clear that some Christians are also busy with bringing in the youth as fundamentalist converts.  cheers, Bonnie

Risottogirl's picture

(post #53468, reply #18 of 37)

Check out the documentary film Jesus Camp. Very scary.

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

Water is a great ingredient to cook with, it has such a neutral flavor - Bobby Flay

PeterDurand's picture

(post #53468, reply #26 of 37)

I am not aware of them strapping bombs on children in order to commit murder to further their cause.


Edited 11/20/2009 11:22 am by PeterDurand

MadMom's picture

(post #53468, reply #28 of 37)

I agree, but murder is murder, whether it's bombs strapped on children or a man shot to death while attending church.  Either way, it's reprehensible.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Florida2's picture

(post #53468, reply #29 of 37)

Read the book, then you might see the vast difference between the threat of Islamist Jihadists/Fundamentalists and the CHristian Fundamentalists.

Jean's picture

(post #53468, reply #30 of 37)

Good luck convincing her. I've been trying to get her (and others) to read that book for eons.  sigh.


A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
kathymcmo's picture

(post #53468, reply #31 of 37)

Are you talking about Infidel? I really need to get that on my list, keep forgetting about it but I also remember how good you said it was.

Jean's picture

(post #53468, reply #36 of 37)

Sorry I wasn't clear--Infidel is the one.


A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
kathymcmo's picture

(post #53468, reply #37 of 37)

Thanks. Heading to the bookstore soon so hope I remember. Somehow my mind tends to go blank once I'm there. I should start a list on my iPhone!