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Anyone still on the fence? POL

Heather's picture

I just read the article on the front page of the NYTimes about Sarah Palin. It seems to be very well researched.
I hope that anyone who isn't sure how they are going to vote will read it. I will say no more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #1 of 140)

What other kind of article would you expect from the NY Times.  They certainly would never do an article commending or approving anything that Palin or McCain do.  That's the NYTimes.


Jim

ashleyd's picture

(post #50875, reply #3 of 140)

What matters is not what the NYT would or wouldn't do, what matters is the accuracy of the reporting. In this case it seems there's a lot of hearsay surrounding a few verifiable facts.


Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

Age is unimportant unless you’re a cheese.

MadMom's picture

(post #50875, reply #4 of 140)

Okay, Jim.  I'm assuming you read the article.  It reminded me very much of the current administration's love of loyalty and secrecy.  What did you disagree with?  And can you cite any references (other than Ms. Palin's own statements) to support your disagreement?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

kathymcmo's picture

(post #50875, reply #5 of 140)

And harsh retribution for anyone perceived as personally disloyal to the Palin family. Very Cheneyesque approach to governing.


I didn't see the article as loaded with hearsay, the e-mail quotes in particular are pretty convincing. The Washington Post today also has an interesting article about the specific duties of a Wasilla Mayor, it's not like other towns where schools and public utilities fall under the city's jurisdiction. So we're starting to get a clearer picture of Ms Palin's experience and governing philosophy.


I do wonder if she's in danger of overshadowing the top of her ticket.


 


 

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #6 of 140)

Probably not, it's more likely now that she is over shadowing the top of the Democrat ticket.  That's why they are all in a dither.


Jim

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #7 of 140)

No, I can't cite any references, and yes I did read the entire article and yes I realize it was written by and published in the NY Times.  To me the only difference between the NY Times and the National Enquirer is that one is located in NY and the other in FL.


It is impossible for the times to publish anything about any conservative or Republican without making it negative to the  hilt.


I totally disregard them as a newspaper.  So do a lot of other folks, why their circulation has dropped so preciptiously lately.  I know that now I'll be attacked for not believeing in the liberal bible, but so be it.


Jim

MadMom's picture

(post #50875, reply #8 of 140)

I would never attack you for not believing in the liberal "Bible" as you put it, but would be interested in what you found to disbelieve and the sources you would cite for your disbelief...or is it simply that the NY Times published it?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #9 of 140)

Well put...simply that it is in the NY Times.  That alone makes it suspect to me, regardless of the quoted sources or anything else they present as fact.  They don't have a good record.


Jim

MadMom's picture

(post #50875, reply #10 of 140)

Okay, if that is good enough for you, then I respect that.  I do wish you had more solid reasoning to back up your opinion, though, but don't guess I can complain, since anything in Fox News is suspect to me, LOL.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Napie's picture

(post #50875, reply #11 of 140)

Now you get it.  I know you once stated you could never understand why we conservatives hated Clinton so much until yo got to live with Bush.  Some 'news" outlets will be dismissed out of hand due to their track record.  As you say, there are things Fox reports on that you wouldn't buy into JUST BECAUSE it is Fox.  We get the same right.

MadMom's picture

(post #50875, reply #12 of 140)

I do agree, and yes, I did make that statement.  I guess we should all respect each others' rights, but at least I do try to find evidence from other sources to support my beliefs.  That was all I was asking Jim to do. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

kathymcmo's picture

(post #50875, reply #13 of 140)

And never no mind about all those Pulitzer prizes and esteemed writers like William Safire and David Brooks. Just a scam, ya know.

MadMom's picture

(post #50875, reply #14 of 140)

But how can they possibly compete with druggies like Rush Limbaugh?



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Gretchen's picture

(post #50875, reply #15 of 140)

Oh, THOSE left wing pinko columnists!! Yeah!   LOL

Gretchen

Gretchen
thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #16 of 140)

 Just for your information, my son and I catered a dinner last night for a DC family, 24 people, very formal sit down.  Guess who was seated at the same table?  Laura Ingram, David Brooks and Charles Krauthmmer.  Too bad I couldn't go sit down and listen to that conversation.


Jim

kathymcmo's picture

(post #50875, reply #17 of 140)

Oh my gosh! Can't say I care much for Ingram but the other two, it would've been so interesting to be, er, a fly in their soup (not that your soup would have any flies!) and hear their conversation. Brooks especially, I try not to miss him on the News Hour on PBS because he always makes me think and he's very reasoned in his approach to putting forth his ideas. Don't agree with him most of the time but still enjoy seeing how his mind works.


Am waiting to hear from my sister how she enjoyed the meals. Had to work all day today so didn't get to call her.

AJ12754's picture

(post #50875, reply #23 of 140)

Did you read the article?


The trouble today is that almost everyone is famous and almost no-one is interesting. (paraphrased Tina Brown)

Cave obdurationem cordis

TracyK's picture

(post #50875, reply #24 of 140)

I'm sorry, but why on earth should he have to read the article?


I don't read articles in the Washington Times, or listen to anything on Fox News, no matter how "fair and balanced" they or their enthusiastic supporters claim the information to be.


CT poster in bad standing since 2000.

AJ12754's picture

(post #50875, reply #25 of 140)

I would find it hard to  denigrate a source if I hadn't read it (I generally don't watch any televised news simply because I am not much of a TV watcher) ... for me, it's like Palin refusing to read Daddy has a Roomate or whatever the name of that book was that she wanted removed from the library.


With the Washington Times, a simple google search can and usually does debunk some of the garbage they print -- I think it would be harder to do anything of the kind with yesterday's NY Times article. But our friend the cook isn't interested in testing his views or even in explaining how he arrived at them.


 


The trouble today is that almost everyone is famous and almost no-one is interesting. (paraphrased Tina Brown)

Cave obdurationem cordis

AnnL's picture

(post #50875, reply #26 of 140)

...it's like Palin refusing to read Daddy has a Roomate or whatever the name of that book was that she wanted removed from the library.


Palin never mentioned any specific books, just inquired about what the procedure would be if someone wanted a book (or books?) removed from the library. 


I'm no fan of Palin's, but please check sources before spreading mis-information.   :-) 


Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

AJ12754's picture

(post #50875, reply #28 of 140)

I'm not spreading mis-information.


From yesterday's NY Times:


But in 1995, Ms. Palin, then a city councilwoman, told colleagues that she had noticed the book “Daddy’s Roommate” on the shelves and that it did not belong there, according to Ms. Chase and Mr. Stein. Ms. Chase read the book, which helps children understand homosexuality, and said it was inoffensive; she suggested that Ms. Palin read it.


“Sarah said she didn’t need to read that stuff,” Ms. Chase said. “It was disturbing that someone would be willing to remove a book from the library and she didn’t even read it.”



 



The trouble today is that almost everyone is famous and almost no-one is interesting. (paraphrased Tina Brown)


Edited 9/15/2008 10:56 am ET by aj12754

Cave obdurationem cordis

AnnL's picture

(post #50875, reply #33 of 140)

Sorry, I stand corrected.  Everything I have read up to now and heard Palin say has been that no specific books were mentioned. 

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

TracyK's picture

(post #50875, reply #31 of 140)

Oh come on. I'm sure Jim has read the NY Times at some point, if he chooses to believe it's biased and therefore not trustworthy what's it to you? 


Opinions are opinions, people have the right to believe how they want. Past a certain point, it just comes down to belief, which can't necessarily be defended or supported by external facts.


Why should Jim need to test his views? Just because you don't happen to agree with his views, or because you aren't satisfied with the conclusions he's drawn or the method he's used to reach that conclusion? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?


Personally, I'm not at all interested in testing my own views. I'm satisfied that I've done enough questioning and investigating and pondering to have settled on the views I have. If presented with truly compelling evidence I might reconsider, but it's pretty bloody unlikely.


I see very few folks here or anywhere else who would honestly be open to opposing viewpoints, at least not from the perspective of changing their own minds on a subject... it's why most of these exhausting political threads are no more than pissing contests, and generally pretty useless.


CT poster in bad standing since 2000.

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #37 of 140)

ITA, read this response after I wrote my previous post.  And you are right.


Jim

TracyK's picture

(post #50875, reply #39 of 140)

The thing is, Jim, you fall prey to the same mindset when you accuse me of being jaundiced and one-sided.


I'm actually pretty damn smart. I've been civically and politically aware and active since a relatively young age. I read lots of sources. I've grown up in a family with political views from all across the spectrum (a grandmother who was a delegate to the Democratic National Convention in 1980, a conservative father who built himself into a successful businessman from a dirt-poor redneck background, a mother who worked on the Kennedy campaign and now is a conservative Libertarian/Republican who likes Ayn Rand about as much as Napie does, etc).


I've just come to different conclusions than you. And I have different priorities than you.


That doesn't make me willfully ignorant or close-minded, and I do not appreciate the continued assertion that it does.


CT poster in bad standing since 2000.

thecooktoo's picture

(post #50875, reply #40 of 140)

Tracy - I probably should have added a smiley face or at least a big {G}.  I was being facitious, or at least trying to be.


We are what we are as a result of our backgrounds, experiences and life history.  No body is going to change that.  I wouldn't expect you to change, and I know that you don't expect me to change. 


Jim

shoechick's picture

(post #50875, reply #48 of 140)

"We are what we are as a result of our backgrounds, experiences and life history.  No body is going to change that.  I wouldn't expect you to change, and I know that you don't expect me to change. "


I completely disagree with that statement.  Your background, experiences and life history only forms part of you.  You decide what you want to become and what you believe in.  Read Infidel and then come back and say that.  You decide who you are and how you act, not your past, it's an excuse.


The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.  ~St. Augustine

The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.  ~St. Augustine

evelyn's picture

(post #50875, reply #51 of 140)

funny, I change every day.  Every little thing I hear, see, touch, feel, smell, EXPERIENCE, changes me in some way.  Some more profoundly than others.

There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.
msm-s's picture

(post #50875, reply #53 of 140)

I think Jim was saying that we can't change what has happened in the past.
But I totally agree with shoechick that we have control over how we use our personal experience to form who we become, and with you, that that person evolves each day (one hopes, anyway). 2 people with similar bad backgrounds can go 2 opposite directions because of it. One may become a sociopath and one may become a social worker.

evelyn's picture

(post #50875, reply #54 of 140)

thanks for clarifying. 

There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it - it is like falling in love.  Christopher Morley

In life, learn the rules so that you know how to break them properly.