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salmonella in undercooked cookies

watching's picture

Would salmonella get killed off in an underbaked cookie (not raw, but pleasantly underbaked)?

Thank you!

Gary's picture

(post #63423, reply #1 of 41)

Maybe.  Killing any bacteria is going to require the product being at a high enough temperature for a certain length of time. Perhaps our resident microbiologist SallyBR can add some light. If you are particularly worried about Salmonella, why not use pasteurized eggs (and wash your hands a lot)?

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madnoodle's picture

(post #63423, reply #2 of 41)

Eating raw cookie dough--which I've cheerfully done for the last 30+ years with no ill effects--was addressed in a FC issue a couple of years ago.  I was pleased to read that the risk is negligible.  Many things can contain some uncooked egg--French toast, lasagna (if you use egg in your filling), scrambled eggs--but I don't think it's a problem unless you're feeding infants, elderly folks, or people with a compromised immune system.

Saskatchewan:  hard to spell; easy to draw.

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

 

MadMom's picture

(post #63423, reply #4 of 41)

The problem in eating raw cookie dough is not the raw egg, as most people think, but the uncooked flour



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Adele's picture

(post #63423, reply #5 of 41)

Is that like swallowing chewing gum?  LOL

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

But, but, it's SUPPOSED to taste like that!

TracyK's picture

(post #63423, reply #7 of 41)

??


Never heard this... would love more info! :-)


I adore raw doughs of any kind... pie crust, biscuits, bread, cookies, brownies, cakes... you name it, I'll sneak a taste of it.



You say I'm a b---- like that's a bad thing.

MadMom's picture

(post #63423, reply #8 of 41)

Actually, was told this in a cooking class...I was the only one who guessed the problem was flour, rather than raw eggs.  Turns out that most flour has little beasties in it which are killed by cooking.  If you eat the dough raw, the beasties are still there.  Sally can probably tell me if this is an old wives' tale, but I tend to think it's not a problem, as the raw eggs are not a problem, unless you have a severely compromised immune system.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

TracyK's picture

(post #63423, reply #9 of 41)

Sounds somewhat reasonable to me... still, I think I will continue throwing caution to the winds. Cookie dough is yummy.


You say I'm a b---- like that's a bad thing.

DeannaS's picture

(post #63423, reply #10 of 41)

Even our food safety specialist secretly admits to eating raw cookie dough. Though, she won't do it in public. ;)

She also said that if you're really concerned, you can buy the tubes of dough (the horror!) or just buy the pasturized egg product, as both are safe.

"As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists." - Joan Dye Gussow

MadMom's picture

(post #63423, reply #11 of 41)

Nothing like raw cookie dough!  I never said I wouldn't eat it, just noted that it might not be the best thing for some people. 



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

watching's picture

(post #63423, reply #13 of 41)

What kind of "beasties" are you talking about? Is this going to give me an aversion to all flour-containing foods?

plantlust's picture

(post #63423, reply #14 of 41)

Oh nothing terribly awful.


Just the extra protein from eggs and larvae of the Indian meal moth.  That is my guess.   



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Edited 2/11/2005 9:43 pm ET by PLANTLUST

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Jean's picture

(post #63423, reply #15 of 41)

They aren't going to hurt anybody. ;)

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plantlust's picture

(post #63423, reply #16 of 41)

Of course not.  But doesn't extra protein in flour result in a tougher dough <g>.

It's the beginning of Feb, NOW go forth and plant.
WHAT?!?  The ground is STILL hard?  sheesh

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with parsley sauce, goat cheese garlic mashed potatoes, Galena Cellars Niagra grape wine & Pie Boss's apple crumble topped with Ruth & Phil's sour cream/cinnamon ice cream.

Gretchen's picture

(post #63423, reply #3 of 41)

It would be so remote as to be off the scale. Even if underdone, it has still gotten to a temp that would kill them IF they were there. I think the egg threat is not as great as in chicken.

Gretchen

Gretchen
SallyBR's picture

(post #63423, reply #6 of 41)

I would not worry about it - unless the person eating the cookies is


1. severely immunodepressed


2. extremely unlucky


 


(both conditions have to apply)


 


First, even if there was a contaminated egg used in the whole batch of cookies, the amount of bacteria present in the center of a few underbaked cookies would not be enough to cause disease.   (by oral route the infective dose is reasonably high)


Second, the frequency of contaminated eggs in grocery stores is pretty low. Soooo, put two and two together and you will realize that it will be easier to get the flu from going to the movies in a crowded theatre.


 

 

mangiaFagioli's picture

(post #63423, reply #12 of 41)

How about the risk in buttercream? Have to make a cake for a children's party and suddently i'm worried.

And does the concentration when it is present vary from yolk to white? (Bakehouse has a recipe for buttercream that uses only whites) There is some heating of the eggs from pouring in the hot sugar syrup but not enough i think to kill salmonella.

SallyBR's picture

(post #63423, reply #17 of 41)

There are two kinds of contamination - one that comes from the contact of eggs with fecal matter from the chickens - that is external to the shell and usually not a problem when sanitation is ok in the place where the chickens are kept. Salmonella is able to cross the egg shell, though.


Then there is contamination from infected chickens - they have Salmonella in their oviducts and the bacteria contaminates the egg during its formation - it is debatable where is the highest concentration of bacteria. Some say it is more common to have egg whites contaminated, less contamination in the yolks. I would treat the whole egg as "potentially contaminated"


Again, I would not worry about making buttercream for a cake - chances of a contaminated egg are  around 1 in 10,000.   The risk is greater in restaurants or places that need to pool eggs to cook for a crowd.  


 

 

sandermom's picture

(post #63423, reply #18 of 41)

We do live in a circular universe. My co-worker has crones.  One of the latest theories purports the introduction of certain beasties back into the digestive tract that our years of anti-bacterial mania have tried to eradicate.  le sigh

Klaatu Barada Nikto

SallyBR's picture

(post #63423, reply #19 of 41)

I suspect that many of the digestive tract diseases that are grouped together as "irritable bowel syndrome", and many others - might have microbiological origin. We just don t know yet - like ulcers, that only recently were associated with Helicobacter infection.


Meanwhile, gastroenterologists go on treating the symptoms - giving acid blockers left and right, telling people that their problem is "you swallow air and don t know it"... etc etc etc.


One day....


 

 

watching's picture

(post #63423, reply #20 of 41)

Hi, everybody

Well, I did a little experiment. I mixed up a double batch of those choc. chip cookies. With the first batch in the oven I stuck a thermometer into a few cookies through the side after about 10 min. of baking. Most of the cookies were about 2 inches in diameter after baking, except one, which I also tested, which I'd made significantly bigger. With one regular size cookie I didn't feel confident I could read the thermometer very well; with all the others I tested, the reading was at least 190 degrees. Yippee!! I too can eat those wonderfully slightly underbaked cookies! Well, if you would call them underbaked. I personally still didn't feel comfortable taking them out of the oven yet and eating them later, so I gave them another 2 or 3 minutes. But I was so pleased with how they turned out, and I don't know that I would have trusted them at that stage of doneness without my thermometer test (I think I tested one or more when I was ready to take them out, also). I thought that would do it, but I didn't feel comfortable taking the other oven-batches out of the oven without the thermometer test, either. Again I think all of the tested cookies came out at at least 190 (I think those later batches were tested after at least 12 min. of baking). And I was so pleased with how the cookies turned out (a treat for my hubby for Valentine's Day...)

KitchenWitch's picture

(post #63423, reply #21 of 41)

or you can keep your own chickens, and get the kind which don't harbor salmonella in the oviducts. And the breed, Marans, lays the most beautiful chocolate brown eggs...



~RuthAnn

~RuthAnn

assibams's picture

(post #63423, reply #22 of 41)

Those eggs are beautiful!! Gotta go find a pic of the breed, too.

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AnnL's picture

(post #63423, reply #23 of 41)

I didn't know certain breeds harbor salmonella.  Do you know which ones?

AnnL
Transitions Farm
Gardening, cooking, and riding
in Central Mass.

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

KitchenWitch's picture

(post #63423, reply #24 of 41)

I think almost all breeds have the potential to harbor it, save Marans.


 


~RuthAnn

~RuthAnn

AnnL's picture

(post #63423, reply #25 of 41)

Ah, got it.  Thanks.

AnnL
Transitions Farm
Gardening, cooking, and riding
in Central Mass.

Ann
"The elders were wise.  They knew that man's heart, away from nature, becomes hard; they knew that lack of respect for growing, living things, soon led to lack of respect for humans, too."  Chief Luther Standing Bear, Lakota Sioux

DeannaS's picture

(post #63423, reply #26 of 41)

Hm...where'd you get that info? A quick google search didn't find anything on a connection between marans and salmonella. I'm just curious as to why one breed wouldn't....(not doubting you, just can't find more info).

"As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists." - Joan Dye Gussow

KitchenWitch's picture

(post #63423, reply #27 of 41)

I don;t have any hard data to support it - it has always been talked about among the chicken fanciers I was acquaited with when I had my birds.
I'm sure I could be wrong.
Still, those Maran eggs are lovely. they are on my list of birds I want, when we're ready to have chickens again.


~RuthAnn

~RuthAnn

Gretchen's picture

(post #63423, reply #28 of 41)

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/raw-eggs.htm


Here is a site I found that has an interesting statistic.  Only about 1 in 30,000 eggs are infected--0.0003% of the eggs produced in this country.  It is really a pretty insignificant problem  particularly with the "dose" an egg in  a cookie recipe would give. The bacteria need to grow to produce the toxin  in order to produce the sickness. 


Gretchen
Gretchen
doyenne's picture

(post #63423, reply #29 of 41)

<Still, those Maran eggs are lovely. they are on my list of birds I want, when we're ready to have chickens again.>


Is this Planned Chickenhood? 




 


 

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KitchenWitch's picture

(post #63423, reply #30 of 41)

sorta.


I'm ready. Bill is not.
probably because it's up to him to build "Fortress Chicken" to secure future poultry from the raccoons. And heaven knows his "honey-do" list is a mile long (finish painting the house, seal and trim the storeroom, convert garage to bedroom, replace windows, etc., etc.) and given that his commute time has nearly doubled with the road conditions, I'm not pushing him to get anything done. well, maybe cleaning the catbox - ugh. 


~RuthAnn

~RuthAnn