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2nd rise doesn't

bookwyrm73's picture

2nd rise doesn't (post #63999)

in

     The bread recipe that I always use is the White Loaves from Baking with Julia.  My first rise is nice and big, almost always just bigger than twice the size.  Second rise is anemic at best, not quite clearing the pan tops.  My yeast is good, water temp is perfect and room temperature on second rise is always +- 5 degrees of 80.  I've used this with different yeasts, same result.  I press down the first rise gently with an open hand and shape the way it says to in the recipe.  Pans are buttered, as is the first rise bowl.  The bread tastes fine, it's just a bit dense and doesn't have that pretty crown.


Any suggestions?


 


...the studious silence of the library...Tranquil brightness.    James Joyce

A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life.
Henry Ward Beecher

Gretchen's picture

(post #63999, reply #1 of 21)

I f you left it for a longer time would it continue to rise?  I let bread rise until it is where it is "supposed" to be, not by time.

Gretchen

Gretchen
CANDILADY's picture

(post #63999, reply #2 of 21)

You might be over proofing it the first go around.  I believe that you only want it to double in size the first time proofing, not more than that.  The dough becomes over inflated.

Jean's picture

(post #63999, reply #3 of 21)

Last week I didn't hear the ding when my breadmaker finished the dough cycle.  DH noticed the dough just about pushing the lid off the machine. I dumped it out and deflated it, flopped it in the bread pan and let it rise again until it was about 1/2 inch over the top of the pan instead of the usual inch. Oven spring brought it up to a decent height when I baked it and no harm done. DH thought maybe it was a little drier than usual but he ate it happily. Moomie's dough thrives on abuse. :)



My mother's menu consisted of two choices: Take it or leave it.

- Buddy Hackett

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Marcia's picture

(post #63999, reply #6 of 21)

Speaking of bread, have you seen Kyle around? It's been a while since I've seen a post from him.


Forget this question, please. He just posted.


Edited 7/13/2006 9:09 am ET by Marcia

KyleW's picture

(post #63999, reply #9 of 21)

Alive and well, thanks for askin' Marcia :-) Summer's here and I like to take a Computer break every now and again.

As to bookwyrm73's bread woes, I have a couple of thoughts. First I love that recipe and I know it works. It's the recipe learned to bake bread with.

bookwyrm73, what size pan are you using? I find that this recipe fits, and rises, nicely in 8x4 pans. If you put too little dough in too big a pan you won't get the appearance you want. If your bread is too dense try adding more water to the dough. Wetter is better when it comes to a nice open crumb. If the dough doesn't feel tacky, not quite sticking to things, then it needs more moisture. This will also make it easier for the dough to rise.

Hope this helps,
Kyle

 


At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.

 

At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.

AmyElliesMom's picture

(post #63999, reply #10 of 21)

Kyle, when are you going to come to Tampa and give me a bread baking lesson. I'm pretty sure that's my only hope of ever baking a decent loaf, lol!

You could totally tour the country, teaching hapless CTer's how to bake the perfect loaf. (not that ALL CTer's are hapless - just some of us. Sigh.)

 


"Life itself is the proper binge."
Julia Child

 

Save the Earth! It's the only planet with wine and chocolate.

Jean's picture

(post #63999, reply #11 of 21)

Sounds like a plan.



My mother's menu consisted of two choices: Take it or leave it.

- Buddy Hackett

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
bookwyrm73's picture

(post #63999, reply #12 of 21)

      I always add flour until the dough doesn't stick to anything anymore!  By the time I take it out, it's pretty dry.  That's probably what I'm doing wrong.  I didn't realize it should be a bit sticky.  Thanks so much. 


P.S.  Pans are 8x4.


 


...the studious silence of the library...Tranquil brightness.    James Joyce

A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life.
Henry Ward Beecher

Gretchen's picture

(post #63999, reply #13 of 21)

I wouldn't presume to contradict anything Kyle said about bread, but the way I interpreted his advice was "not dry". I know semantics are difficult, but I'm not thinking "sticky" either.  Just a thought.

Gretchen

Gretchen
Jean's picture

(post #63999, reply #14 of 21)

I always thought it should feel like your ear lobe, or a baby's butt, which ever was closest. LOL



My mother's menu consisted of two choices: Take it or leave it.

- Buddy Hackett

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
KyleW's picture

(post #63999, reply #15 of 21)

It's been a while since I've felt a baby's butt as there are laws against that kind of thing here in Gotham City.


The dough should not actually stick to anything, but it should feel like it wants to. Maybe like the back of a post-it note.



Peter Reinhart uses the  phrase "tacky, not sticky" to describe the finished dough.


At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.


Edited 7/14/2006 1:05 pm ET by KyleW

 

At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.

Aberwacky's picture

(post #63999, reply #16 of 21)

"The dough should not actually stick to anything, but it should feel like it wants to. Maybe like the back of a post-it note."

Perfect!


Leigh


Bacteria is the only culture some people have.

"Happiness does not depend on outward things, but on the way we see them." 
-Leo Tolstoy
bookwyrm73's picture

(post #63999, reply #17 of 21)

     I actually have a baby's butt in the house to compare it to, but will refrain when it (said butt) becomes sticky.   >:-P    


     So a post-it would be tacky and tape would be sticky?  If I pull my finger away from the dough should it leave tiny little peaks? 


 


...the studious silence of the library...Tranquil brightness.    James Joyce

A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life.
Henry Ward Beecher

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KyleW's picture

(post #63999, reply #18 of 21)

If I pull my finger away from the dough should it leave tiny little peaks? 


That may be a little too wet. There's really only one way to get to Carnegie Hall...


With practice, practice, practice your hands and fingers will get smart. You will know insinctively when the dough is right.



I think the caption on your pic could be "What's the fascination with my butt? Geez!"


 


At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.


Edited 7/14/2006 3:33 pm ET by KyleW

 

At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.

bookwyrm73's picture

(post #63999, reply #20 of 21)

Jean- He's 6 1/2 months old!  My baby Angel.


Kyle-  I may know what's screwing me up.  Ever since I've developed carpal tunnel I've used my mixer to knead the dough.  I can't get as good a feel for it anymore so there's much more guess work involved.  It's frustrating.  I always weigh my ingredients for cakes and it's irritating that I can't do the same for bread.  Then again, I've been making bread for less than a year, so I'm still very much a beginner. 


 


...the studious silence of the library...Tranquil brightness.    James Joyce

A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life.
Henry Ward Beecher

KyleW's picture

(post #63999, reply #21 of 21)

I will confess, it has been some time since I built a dough without the help of my trusty Kenwood mixer :-) Having proved to myself long ago that I could do it the old fashioned way, I no longer feel compelled to do so :-)


Smart fingers still rule the day however. I use a scale to get my dough started. I weigh out the desired amounts of flour, water, etc. But I know I'm going to adjust. Some days are humid do I need less water. On cold dry winter days I may need a little more. This is where the smart fingers come in to play. I know what the finished dough should feel like, regardless of the relative humidity of my kitchen. It also doesn't matter whether I'm checking the dough in my mixer's bowl or on the bench :-)



 


At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.


Edited 7/14/2006 4:16 pm ET by KyleW

 

At weddings, my Aunts would poke me in the ribs and cackle "You're next!". They stopped when I started doing the same to them at funerals.

Jean's picture

(post #63999, reply #19 of 21)

Look at him sitting up...he's still an infant! So darling.



My mother's menu consisted of two choices: Take it or leave it.

- Buddy Hackett

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
CANDILADY's picture

(post #63999, reply #7 of 21)

Sounds like my kind of recipe! 

Jean's picture

(post #63999, reply #8 of 21)

It's great, try it. I sub a cup of ww for a cup of the bread flour.



My mother's menu consisted of two choices: Take it or leave it.

- Buddy Hackett

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
bookwyrm73's picture

(post #63999, reply #4 of 21)

That sounds about right.  I'm always startled at how big the dough gets the first time around without actually measuring to see if it's only double.  I'll try that next time.  Thanks.

 


...the studious silence of the library...Tranquil brightness.    James Joyce

A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life.
Henry Ward Beecher

Gretchen's picture

(post #63999, reply #5 of 21)

But I don't think the yeast "runs out".  I have actually had bread to rise 3 times because, like Jean, I missed the optimum time.

Gretchen

Gretchen