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Remodeling Kitchen

Louis_Matherne's picture

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After many years of talking about it we are finally getting around to remodeling our kitchen. Now all the things we said we were going to do (or wished for) have to be decided.

I have many questions to ask this group but I'll start with one question at a time. First the oven.

We're pretty sure we want to go with separate ovens/cooktop. We are leaning towards the Thermadore 30" double oven but would like to hear what others think of this unit compared to the Dacor double oven. Dacor advertises its product as the only true convection oven. Is it really that much different or better than the Thermadore?

The main reason we are selecting the Thermadore over the Dacor is because it vents outside. We have Parrots and they are succeptiple to some of the nasties that ovens can generate.

There is also the new Thermadore CJ302 - accelerating cooking - to consider. Does anyone have experience with this unit yet?

Thanks!

Louis Matherne

Marie-Louise_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #1 of 31)

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The FC article about cooking w/ a convection oven will explain to you the difference between a "true" convection oven and an oven w/ a fan. Start there; depending on how much baking / oven roasting you do, only you can decide which one's better for you.

I don't bake much, and don't make that many meals that require an oven or a broiler. Quite frankly, only about once a year I wish I had 2 ovens. I'd never waste that much wall space or money on 2 ovens. But that's just me; lots of other people probably wish they had 3 ovens.

I've had / designed 2 kitchens from scratch for myself, and have tinkered w/ the others in the other 2 homes I've owned. I think the best advice I ever got about how to make a kitchen successful is to think long and hard about YOU cook. Don't be swayed by what designers say you "should" have for a high-end kitchen. I once got into a heated discussion w/ my otherwise gifted architect because he thought I had too many drawers in my kitchen [which was ruining the lines of the cabinets when viewed from the living room]. Now how the hell would anyone but me know how many drawers I needed in a kitchen? (Which, as I recall, was more or less what I told him, LOL!) That being said, designers are great for helping you choose tiles and paint and the sorts of things that non-pros like me can torture themselves for weeks over. They understand how shadows and reflections change a white to a color, what kind of light the various types of fixtures and even bulbs cast-the sorts of things you only learn by experience.

Keep asking us questions, though-there are no shortage of people who are more than happy to give advice!!!

Louis_Matherne's picture

(post #58541, reply #2 of 31)

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Marie-Louise,

Thanks for the reply. Which issue was the cooking with a convection oven in? I couldn't find it in the index.

Louis

dixie_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #3 of 31)

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Louis -
i We have Parrots and they are succeptiple to some of the nasties that ovens can generate.
Such as? I have an African Grey and don't know of oven nasties. I know you should not heat teflon coated pans on top of the stove without some sort of oil or fat in them, but never heard of oven problems.

Louis_Matherne's picture

(post #58541, reply #4 of 31)

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Dixie,

Some oven manufacturers apparently use teflon. Hard to tell or confirm but there have been several cases of dead parrots when using the self-cleaning function. Teflon only needs to get over about 500 degrees before it becomes deadly to birds.

Louis

Nancy_G.'s picture

(post #58541, reply #5 of 31)

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I remodeled my kitchen a year ago. I designed the whole thing and my husband did all the work. That said, we still spent $20,000 to remodel. I have the Dacor duel fuel range (wanted double ovens but no room.) I love the range, the oven (electric) gives you the option of regular baking, convection bake and true convection and I regularly use all three.

One of the best books I found was
i The Kitchen Idea Book
published by Taunton and written by Joanna (sorry Jo, I'm too lazy to look up your whole name) Keller Bouknight - I think. Jo ocassionally posts here.

Consumer Reports has done evaluations of higher end stoves and ovens within the past year or so. That would be a good place to check out how the brands compare. Mean Chef has recently remodeled and got a Viking. He's the king! Find out what he thinks.

If you check the archives we've had lots of kitchen remodel discussions where you can get lots of remodeling suggestions.

CLS's picture

(post #58541, reply #6 of 31)

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Nancy, "Jo" who posts here sometimes is Joanna Bouknight?! You're kidding?! Are you sure? I love that book, one of the best resources I found for remodeling kitchens. If I'd know "our" Jo was really that Joanne, I would have said something!

Amy_W.'s picture

(post #58541, reply #7 of 31)

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Oh CLS...

i [Amy, shaking her head sadly...]
you haven't been paying attention.
The subject came up before, but apparently that thread went poof.
This may clear it up though...

Marie-Louise_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #8 of 31)

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The article "Better Cooking through Convection" was in the May, 2000 issue (page 68). Page 70-71 has pictures and descriptions of the difference among a convention oven, a "true convection oven" and "a radiant oven w/ a fan." Note in the body of the article is a comment that most gas ovens don't offer true convection.

CLS's picture

(post #58541, reply #9 of 31)

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I must have missed that - I'm sure I missed it, as a matter of fact. How exciting!

renee_molicard's picture

(post #58541, reply #10 of 31)

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hi Louis,
Great for you, new kitchen.
We did the same thing last year - sigh! I have my dream kitchen.
I opted for 2 miele (german co.) ovens. They are 24" wide so don't take up as much space, but still allow for enough interior space to cook a large turkey.
I find myself using both ovens at the same time regularly.

Miele also make a great dishwasher, super quiet and it has a 3rd tray on top for the cutlery. your knives and forks come out super clean.

I opted for large drawers for all my pots and pans and am very happy with that.
I also installed appliance pop-ups for food proccessor and mixmaster. it keeps your counters nice and tidy.

Good luck and enjoy :)

Chiffonade_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #11 of 31)

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If someone wanted to get remodeling info especially for kitchens, any magazine recommendations??? (Aside from the Taunton pubs, of course.)

MEAN_CHEF's picture

(post #58541, reply #12 of 31)

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The way we went about it was to use books and magazines we had collected over about a 1 1/2 year period of time for ideas as to design and product choices (flooring, counters, appliances etc).

Actual product choice, including durability, prices, and other pros and cons (as well as some of the purchasing) was done with info found on the internet.

In the end, the design was primarily ours tempered by what we had learned and with input from our contractor. If you are doing a remodel most of the designs you see in books and magazines have very limited value.

Let me know what specific things you want to know. I may be able to point you in the right direction.

EM_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #13 of 31)

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I love the idea of large drawers for pots and pans. A friend of a friend did all drawers on the lower cabinets...no doors. Glasware is kept in a drawer with slots to separate them, dinnerware, the works. One whole wall over the sink area is windows, so she has limited storage overhead. I think all shelves, but am not totally sure. I never thought I would like having no cabinets overhead, but this sounds like a great way to design a kitchen.

Chiffonade_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #14 of 31)

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Thanks, Mean. Here's the thing...we are THISCLOSE to being approved for a mortgage on a 101 year old house. Thus far, the only thing we know we want is one of those cool heating stoves in the living room because we both want a fireplace and there is none. There is, however, a flue for a heating stove. We know we want the kitchen to be warm tones. That's about it...ROFLMAO. We really need some inspiration for the kitchen and bathroom. I think the design for the rest of the rooms will present itself.

Messy_Cook's picture

(post #58541, reply #15 of 31)

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Sounds like a great space Chiff.

As far as kitchens go when I designed mine, I took 12 years. We bought a 80 yr old house 13 years ago with a postage stamp sized kitchen.
It took 12 years to plan and mostly afford to create my dream kitchen.
Large drawers for pots and pans are the way to go.
I included a large bay window over the kitchen sink, where I keep fresh flowers and grow herbs in winter. I included appliance lifts for my processor and mixmaster. A special drawer for knives.
On the overall "look" we included a marine aquarium.
The cabinets are a staggered height, which make them all look more like furniture than kitchen cabinets.
Included rope lights under the cabinets at the toe kick. The reflect on the floor (oak) and look really cool. Lots and lots of lighting is important too.

Have fun creating,
We did all the work ourselves (other than building the cabinets). I'm not alone in the kitchen anymore
:)

kai_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #16 of 31)

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Sounds lovely, Messy! One thing we all love here is pics. Got any? TIA :)

Messy_Cook's picture

(post #58541, reply #17 of 31)

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I do have pics kai,
i belive it or not it was clean when the pics were taken
but being pretty new at this computer stuff, I'd have to get my
computer whiz kid to show me how.
Where should I post any pics?

kai_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #18 of 31)

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i Where should I post any pics?

Messy, here in the Remodeling Kitchen thread would be good if they are of your remodel :)

Just save a pic on your hard drive and press "Browse..." until you find it shows up in the "Attachments:" box. At least I think that's how it works :/

Messy_Cook's picture

(post #58541, reply #19 of 31)

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Hey Chiff

Don't keep us in suspence...

Did you get the house ??

Rebecca's picture

(post #58541, reply #20 of 31)

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Everybody better go & check IPKE!

Messy_Cook's picture

(post #58541, reply #21 of 31)

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Rebecca is right.

When do we see a pic of the happy couple in front of their new house??

Berta_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #22 of 31)

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Louis, Congratulations on remodeling your kitchen. I have built two new houses and one remodeling of a kitchen. Do Not let the cabinet builder or contractor, etc. tell you what you want. Remind them they are not going to live in the house. I have all drawers (37) under the counters.(Cabinet builder thought I was crazy) I had several files(5) put in. They are above the ovens and the mixing center, and three are under the counters. I enjoy them for storing trays and odd sized casserole dishes. One thing I did before we started construction five years ago was to list the size of all casserole, dishes, pots and pans etc. So when the time came to finish the final plans of the kitchen I knew what size of file I needed in each cupboard.

Choo_d'Phet's picture

(post #58541, reply #23 of 31)

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There's an article in Gourmet Dec issue about kitchens. They have good comparison charts for countertops and flooring. You might want to check it out.

Louis_Matherne's picture

(post #58541, reply #24 of 31)

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I've heard more and more support for all drawers under the counters. The more I think about it the more I like it.

What do you mean when you say files?

Rebecca's picture

(post #58541, reply #25 of 31)

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We now have all drawers under the counters (and one lazy susan in the corner - same idea, though, no digging around). It is FANTASTIC. You can get drawer slides that will support a lot of weight, 150 pounds for instance. Thanks, DH!

MEAN_CHEF's picture

(post #58541, reply #26 of 31)

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Two exceptions to a drawers. When I remodeled I put in an open shelf just below my counter that holds an open box of parchment paper and below that a slotted space to insert sheet pans, cutting boared etc. Well worth it.

Berta_'s picture

(post #58541, reply #27 of 31)

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Files--Vertical Files or slotted spaces as Mean Chef called them-- They are usually in cupboards that are over built in ovens so you can store cooky sheets, large casseroles dishes, trays, etc. It is easier than having everything stacked on top of each other in hard to reach areas. Louis, I have had lower cabinets with doors and pull out shelves, but I prefer all drawers.

Wolverine's picture

(post #58541, reply #28 of 31)

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so where the drawer would be is open space? Do you have a pic of this set up?? Sounds interesting!

Messy_Cook's picture

(post #58541, reply #29 of 31)

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Drawers are the way to go, I don't think you'd regret that choice.
One of the lastest things for drawers, are the sliding mechanisms, the two sides of the drawer are also the slides. They can take a lot of weight (150 lbs), and slide in and out like a dream.
I also included a entertainment center in one corner of my kitchen, where I installed the stereo for the main floor. It works very well there because even if we are all in the living room, we are always back in the kitchen to fix drinks check dinner etc.
As the rest of the time, we are mostly in the kitchen, it works great. We also installed in wall speakers in the kitchen, they are not too expensive, completely out of the way and sound great.
Let us know how things are progressing.

MEAN_CHEF's picture

(post #58541, reply #30 of 31)

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No picture. Where the drawer would be is just an open shelf. Sort of like a drawer bottom only, no front and it doesn't slide. A shelf the same height as the drawers on either side but wide enough to hold a box of parchment.