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Napie's picture

The polls.. (post #50781)

Pollster John Zogby: "Palin is not to be underestimated. Her real strength is that she is authentic, a real mom, an outdoors person, a small town mayor (hey, she has dealt with a small town city council - that alone could be preparation for staring down Vladimir Putin, right?). She is also a reformer."


"A very important demographic in this election is going to be the politically independent woman, 15% of whom in our latest survey are undecided."


"In the final analysis, this election will be about Obama vs. McCain. Obama has staked out ground as the new JFK - a new generation, literally and figuratively, a new face of America to the world, a man who can cross lines and work with both sides. But McCain is the modern day Harry Truman - with lots of DC experience, he knows what is wrong and dysfunctional with Washington and how to fix it, and he has chosen a running mate who is about as far away from Washington as he could find.


"This contest is likely to be very close until the weekend before the election - then the dam may break and support may flood one way or the other."


The interactive survey shows that 22% of those voters who supported Democrat Hillary Clinton in their primary elections or caucus earlier this year are now supporting John McCain.


Among those who said they shop regularly at Wal-Mart - a demographic group that Zogby has found to be both "value" and "values" voters - Obama is getting walloped by McCain. Winning 62% support from weekly Wal-Mart shoppers, McCain wins these voters at a rate similar to what President Bush won in 2004. Obama wins 24% support from these voters.


Other demographic details are fairly predictable, showing that the McCain/Palin ticket heads into its convention on Monday with numbers that may fuel an optimism they may not have expected, and that many would not have predicted, especially after Obama's speech Thursday night.

Biscuit's picture

They have good reason to be; job growth is at a standstill, we have a massive debt THEY will have to pay off, we are stagnant when it comes to new technologies, mortgage crisis, etc. 


Their immediate future is on the line.  I hope they ARE involved.  They need to be.  I have heard that Obama campaign has gone all out in turning them out to vote this time.


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

kathymcmo's picture

Honestly I wish everyone of voting age would vote! When I think what people in other countries go through to gain and then exercise that right, and how many soldiers have died in the last few centuries here, it just makes me ill that so many opt not to vote.

Biscuit's picture

I believe that we should be like Australia - REQUIRED to vote or get a fine.


In Australia, EVERYONE votes unless you are in the hospital or have some other debilitating reason why.  They have something like a 96% voter turnout!  Pretty impressive, I think.


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

MadMom's picture

I used to agree, but do you really want people who don't give a darn about the issues casting a vote and deciding your future?  At least, the way it is, the people who vote have a chance of caring.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

thecooktoo's picture

When we lived in Puerto Rico back in the 70's, we had to report to a location and once all the voters were in the room, we marked our ballots and had to remain until all of the ballots were counted.  We were physically locked in.  Once the ballots were counted, and there was the same number of ballots as there were people, we were released.  Typically took about three hours to vote.


(edited to add): But that was OK because it took at least 3 or 4 weeks to get your telephone fixed if it went down.  Time was never an issue in the islands!


Jim


Edited 9/2/2008 2:13 pm ET by thecooktoo

msm-s's picture

I get the spirit of your post, but that still wouldn't meant these voters would actually educate themselves on the issues or particularly care what's going on.

Frying or fire-- Last thing we really need is the apathy vote, cast either as a joke, as a family legacy or to cancel one's parents out of spite.

Syrah's picture

We have no choice but to make ourselves aware. It's entrenched in the culture. I went to voting booths with my parents growing up. Election day is a big deal. Voting isn't seen so much as a right but more a responsibility.

I would wager and I do not mean to make generalisations, that the average Australian knows more about the current political arena than the average American in their respective countries. We have a fair amount of knowledge concerning your arena, but enough that I say more.

Concerning the apathy vote - we have whats called the informal vote. It's where you screw up the form in some way by writing "Obama sucks" or other commentary, rather than just voting for McCain for example. These are discarded and do not count. I think with your system it might be harder, because I understand it is a little more electronic.

I believe in champagne...

i did not swear.


Edited 9/3/2008 8:30 am by Syrah

"Life is not easy for any of us. But what of that? We must have perseverance and, above all, confidence in ourselves. We must believe that we are gifted for something, and that this thing, at whatever cost, must be obtained." -Marie Curie

msm-s's picture

I'll not bet against you on that! You are NOT dissing America, just stating a widely known sad fact, that we take too much for granted and a large portion of us are lazy in this area, to one extreme or another.

Edited 9/3/2008 9:04 am ET by msm-s


Edited 9/3/2008 9:10 am ET by msm-s

gourmand's picture

You better hope Obama's numbers get much higher. He will need at least numbers higher than 10% or it ain't going to happen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect


 Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional.

 Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional.

Biscuit's picture

It's entrenched in their culture - the same way it is in France and England.


When I lived in Europe, I had no American friends - they were all European and beleive it or not, Aussie and Kiwi.  Lots of Aussie and Kiwis in the UK.


That's where I got a down-and-dirty education on being politically aware, politically savvy and politically engaged.  The young people from those countries are really engaged, and they are mystified and appalled that WE aren't! 


They take their politics very seriously.  I wish we did as well, as a nation, not just 22% of us (that was the estimate of the percentage of our population that actually votes, even on a good year - pathetic, isn't it?)


When I returned from Europe I was a lot more engaged in our political process.  And I make sure Max is, too.  He has gone to vote with me every time I've voted since he was born.  He watches debates with me, and we talk about them.  DH and I encourage him to really think about what he hears, ask questions, and come to his OWN conclusions, not just mimic me and his Dad.  Yea, he's 7, so most of this goes way over his head, but it's a process, isn't it?


I don't think politics are too heavy for little kids - they need to start being engaged in the process now.


That's why I really admire what Australia has done, and wish we had the same thing here.


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

chefd's picture

I thought about voting like at one time.  The a Lib said it was ok with her if people did not vote.  That way she had a better chance of getting her way.  I am afraid of uninformed people going in and pulling the handle. 


Chefd

Gretchen's picture

I'm not sure I understand. If it is me, then fine. If it is a typo or such, then I'd appreciate knowing.

Gretchen

Gretchen
Biscuit's picture

One person - one vote.  It's the Constitution.  If everyone felt like they actually had a VOICE, more would vote.


I've heard your argument before, too - "I don't want my INFORMED vote cancelled out by your UNINFORMED vote".  That's horse-hockey, IMNSHO.  And if you really feel that way, then I assume you have volunteered your time with groups which educate people on issues and encourage them to vote???


 


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

chefd's picture

Just a statement.  I passed on a response from a friend.  Yes I do spend a great deal of time volunteering in all areas.  Voter reg. habitat for humanity, adult ed.  and on and on.  AS the former speaker of the house from Mo. used to say I have been lucky at life's lottery and being retired I can donate my time.  I do so and enjoy all the the fine people I meet.


Chefd

Biscuit's picture

Excellent, then! (g)   I hate hearing people talk about the "uninformed voter" but they do nothing to fix the situation (I adore my neighbor, but he is exactly they kind of person I'm thinking of...).  I volunteer what's left of my time after the PTA to the League of Women's Voters.  My parents were really passionate about voting ("If you are a citizen, use sidewalks, trash pickup, drive on highways, attend public schools, it's not your RIGHT to vote, it's your RESPONSIBILITY!"), and they passed that on to me.  I just believe more people WOULD vote if they saw how voting actually affected their lives.  Most people just don't think their votes actually do anything.

Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

chefd's picture

Did you happen to see the forum last night?  National service very important.  I do agree with Mccain that the govt. does not do a good job of running the programs.  Faith-based and local groups do a better job. 


I have built Habitat houses paid for by corp., local church groups, fraternal org.  They do a great job.  This is my favorite charity.  The person on the receiving end must participate.  500 hour.


Chefd

Biscuit's picture

I did watch the forum last night, and I think it's about time we had a serious talk about National Service.


I love the Habitat for Humanity group.  One of the best charities around, IMHO.  I have never participated in one because I can't bring my son around a job site and I really can't afford a babysitter for those long stretches of time, but when Max is older DH and I are determined that all three of us will get involved in it.


 


Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

Canuck's picture

I love Habitat for Humanity too. However, their volunteer setup here is frustrating; we've applied a few times (we both have good skills) and they've never even replied.


So, when the kids were in preschool, I contacted Habitat and asked if they needed food for a nearby build. They were very grateful, and gave me a list of preferred items (cut up brownies, cookies, bottled water, easy fruits; things that didn't need serving). I organized some moms, and promised others no guilt if they gave me money for the water LOL and dropped off the supplies at the scheduled time. So DDs had an opportunity to see the charity, participate as they could, and receive grateful thanks. Win-win.


Except I'd still like to help build :)

Biscuit's picture

I never thought about volunteering food!  Hey!  That's a great idea!  Thanks, Canuck!  That's something I could do that wouldn't be a big problem if Max tagged along.

Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.
- Mark Twain

"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."  - George Bernard Shaw

Canuck's picture

They did have people who would hand out the food; we were just to make it and deliver it. But it was good for the girls to participate. I believe in helping in the community, and now it's just something they expect to do.


I'm the bake table coordinator at our elementary school and for the past two years I've done a chocolate fountain. Any child volunteer gets a coupon thanking him/her for helping and pointing out that we couldn't do it without them, a free chocolate fountain treat, and their signature on a poster of volunteers. They are MUCH more keen to help now (some volunteer for several shifts), and we've brought in my DDs and their high school friends who need 40 hours of volunteering before they can graduate. Get 'em while they're young.

MadMom's picture

I share your frustration.  A local church here was advertising for people to volunteer to cook in their kitchen to feed the hungry.  I called three times, left my name, finally got in touch with someone who said it was not their job, left my name and number again, and no one ever called.  It was sad, because I thought it would have been a good thing to do.  Evidently they needed volunteers enough to advertise, but not enough to call them back.


I do love Habitat for Humanity, though, and the idea of volunteering food for workers is a good one.




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
Canuck's picture

I tried not to get frustrated because I know that handling volunteers is a big, thankless job. However, when you're trying to help, it can turn you right off volunteering altogether.


However, as you know, I believe that cookies can change the world, so I figured that they'd want those. And I was right. :)

Gretchen's picture

Charlotte has one of the largest Habitat "chapters" in the country. I think I saw in today's paper that the house they were building this week is number 225--it was being built in 28 hours by a group from Bank of America. DS was part of one last year for the bank where they had to raise the money and then build it.


One of the first ones here was back in the 80's that our church was working on and Jimmy Carter, a good friend of the founder, came to work on the house. He granted ONE interview, but otherwise was just there to work. I was taking pictures for our church, and took one of him sitting in a lawn chair at lunch. What I loved was that his jeans were completely worn out in the knees.


Gretchen
Gretchen
gourmand's picture

DECLARATIONS
By PEGGY NOONAN



A Clear and Present Danger
To the American Left

 


http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html


 Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional.

 Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional.

Jean's picture

Very interesting. Pretty much articulates my POV.  No matter how this plays out, I certainly wish Sarah Palin and her family well. The following quote made me LOL.
"That was a long way of saying: Dig deep into Sarah Palin, get all you can, talk to everybody, get every vote, every quote, tell us of her career and life, she may be the next vice president. But don't play games. And leave her kid alone, ******."



A merry heart does good like a medicine: Prov. 22:17



http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

A  clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
help to provide free mammograms for women in need
Heather's picture

I agree totally that the press has to stick to reporting the facts. But look what happened to Campbell Brown when she tried to ask a legitimate question.

cookie1's picture

The McSame people like to play both sides of the coin. They are truly whiners!


 


Cheryl


It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice!

Cheryl

It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice!

Lee's picture

I tuned in just as CNN was winding up a discussion about that.  What question did Campbell ask?

Heather's picture

She was interviewing a Palin representative and asked him what actions Palin had taken as leader of the Alaska National Guard. He couldn't answer and got all defensive. McCain then cancelled his appearance on Larry King as punishment.

AJ12754's picture

Yeah -- apparently she has NEVER given a single order to the Alaska National Guard according to Frank Rich -- I noticed they've kinda stopped talking about that aspect of her "foreign policy experience".


Honestly between that argument and the argument that living next to Russia qualifies her, I'm starting to feel like we are living in a Saturday Night lLve skit.



The trouble today is that almost everyone is famous and almost no-one is interesting. (paraphrased Tina Brown)


Edited 9/10/2008 1:42 pm ET by aj12754

Cave obdurationem cordis