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"Intelligent Design:

StevenHB's picture

I haven't been around much lately and it's, sadly, likely to stay that way.


This morning I read the feature article in this week's Time or was it Newsweek talking about the "debate" about teaching "Intelligent Design" alongside evolution in American classrooms.  The President of the United States recently expressed support for the teaching of this religion-masquerading-as-science!


Clearly my values are significantly different than many, many other Americans'.  I can hardly believe that people are talking about such utter bullsh1t in the 21st century.  No wonder our high school students compare so unfavorably with those from other countries.


Thoughts?


Discuss, please.



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
PeterDurand's picture

Great way to get a state religion in by the back door isn't it?

 

StevenHB's picture

Great way to get a state religion in by the back door isn't it?


That does appear to be the goal, doesn't it?



Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible

Without coffee, chocolate, and beer, in that order, life as we know it would not be possible
~~Jean's picture

Oh, cut it out.  Get real. Not even Christians want a State Religion. That's a stupid thing to say.

Vedi, Vici, Velcro   I came, I saw, I stuck around.

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

MadMom's picture

Jean, people such as you, who I am assuming are true committed Christians, may not want a state religion.  There are others who will tell you we are "a Christian country" founded on "Christian principles" and our government, our schools, and our courts should recognize that.  If that isn't trying to come up with a state religion, what is it?


I have to wonder what our government will do if the democratically elected government in Iraq implements a constitution which is religious-based, one which reflects fundamentalist Muslim values, one which relegates women to a second-class status and outlaws the practice of other religions, such as Christianity?  Is this what they started a war for?




Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!
AmyElliesMom's picture

That certainly is the way it is in my county. Christian, through and through (pay no attention to the Muslim, Hindus and other assorted religions, please. They don't count). I mean, the City Commision in Tampa voted to have no support, observance or other positivity towards Gay Awareness month. Because they should all be shoved back into the closet, those filthy sinners.

Ugh. It's so bad, when they sent home a form from Ellie's classroom asking what holidays she celebrated, I didn't put anything. No need to have her singled out as different.

I would just like to know exactly where in the Bible it assigns a point value to specific sins. Is being gay say, worse than eating an unclean meat?

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair. ~ George Burns

 

Save the Earth! It's the only planet with wine and chocolate.

Jillsifer's picture

It's so bad, when they sent home a form from Ellie's classroom asking what holidays she celebrated,


They WHHHHAAAAATTTTTT?!?!?!?! I hope you were at least tempted to make up a bunch of really weird, off-the-wall stuff?


That's just a thinly disguised way of asking your family's religion, or if you have a religion.


H*ll, they don't even ask questions like that at Gillen's Catholic school. (Of course there IS a certain presumption--the school admits students of all faiths or no faith but says they will be required to participate in Masses and such, but I don't mind that because it's out in the open and right up front--but nobody knows who celebrates Halloween/Samhain, Veteran's Day, St. Patrick's Day, National Gingerbread Week and so forth.)


I can't BELIEVE they did that!


 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

AmyElliesMom's picture

Yeah, I was a bit taken aback. It was on a "getting to know your student" questionnaire, so I'm thinking it was really quite innocent. We have a large Muslim and Hindu population in our area, and I'm sure the teacher was just trying to make sure she gets everyone's religion included in the classroom celebrations or something. I teach Ellie our holidays at home, and I teach her that most of them are celebrated by the mainstream under a different name, anyway. Most of the kids in our group think that's really neat. But being pagan in the Bible Belt isn't always fun.

It wasn't that long ago that some friends of mine were getting shot at, in their own backyard, for chanting and dancing around a fire. Ridiculous.

When my parenting group gets together (bunch of lazy pagans that we are, lol), we sort of have to "hide" what we are doing. No public rituals. It's just too risky. Sad.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair. ~ George Burns

 

Save the Earth! It's the only planet with wine and chocolate.

AJ12754's picture

We need more pagans (or at least more skeptics) in the Bible Belt.  It's a big job but thank god somebody is willing to do it.

Cave obdurationem cordis

Sondra's picture

We need more pagans (or at least more skeptics) in the Bible Belt.


Or maybe just more people who grasp the concept of separation of State and Religion.  Wouldn't hurt to have a few more people who know how to mind their own business, too.

AJ12754's picture

Agreed.  Also people who grasp the fact that science is about disproving hypotheses, not proving them.


 


But I'd still love to write a book titled "Pagan in a Red State"

Cave obdurationem cordis

Gretchen's picture

I would like to point out that these are STATES that are considering these additions to the curriculum.  It has nothing to do with the federal government.  It is, unfortunately, reaching a bit of a ground swell.

Gretchen

Gretchen
Gretchen's picture

We have a large Muslim and Hindu population in our area, and I'm sure the teacher was just trying to make sure she gets everyone's religion included in the classroom celebrations or something.


I agree with you. There is nothing sinister about this.  There are holidays like Kwanza and JuneTeenth that are celebrated here.


Gretchen
Gretchen
Mimi's picture

jillsiffer:  I can beleive they sent home a form like that!  School take so much heat from parents who don't want their little darlings to celebrate things like birthdays and holidays (or salute the flag!), who think that halloween is a holiday to celebrate the devil, etc. that they have to poll parents so they can give the classroom teacher a heads up!  The parents will go so far as to claim that the whole class should not be allowed to celebrate Valentine's Day because Valentine was a christian saint. 


One of our local high schools was embroiled in a lawsuit because it had a generic prayer offered at the graduation ceremony.  This offended greatly someone who thought the prayer excluded her daughter.


Is it nuts out there or what??


mimi

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Jillsifer's picture

I truly believe there's a cadre of people out there looking for something to b*tch about.


My son's Catholic school gleefully celebrates Halloween with full costuming every year, excluding ONLY devil costumes (kind of a natural adversary thing there, I think). But they're full of witches and bats and vampires and it's GREAT fun and nobody in the entire parish community is the least bit confused about "worshipping the devil" or any of that nonsense.


But my hateful, vicious, spiteful, backstabbing neighbor--the one whose license plate reads "Speak for Christ"--has a FIT about my Halloween lights and outdoor decorations. She's told EVERYBODY up and down the street that I'm beyond all hope of redemption.


Wait til she sees THIS year's graveyard scene!


 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

Mimi's picture

Jill:  Both the styrofoam used in packing big-box items and the foam-rubber padding used to make cushions make really great headstones!   Surgical gloves filled with popcorn look like skeletal hands when backlit.


One of my highest achievments as homeroom Mother and Halloween planner was the year I took a head of cauliflower and coated it with red jello, put it in a feely box (a closed box with just enough room to stick your hand in) and told the kids it was "A Brain".  They were totally grossed out and only came back two or three times :)  I love the make believe that halloween encourages!


I went to Catholic school too, waaaay back in the day when Real Nuns taught.  The highlight of our night used to be to go to the convent and show off our costumes.  Especially the year my best friends older brother dressed up as a nun.


mimi

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Jillsifer's picture

LOVE the brain idea.


Last year two eighth-grade boys at G's Catholic school wore dark, pleated, "dress" slacks, short-sleeved white shirts, ties, and really sturdy Oxford shoes. They made little oval nametags and called each other "Elder" all day. Needless to say, they got hauled in and lectured about making fun of other people's religions, but I thought their costumes were very clever and very funny.


I just hope some Mormon kid somewhere dressed in an old-fashioned nun's habit on the same day!


 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

Mimi's picture

Oh, I think the elders should have gone from classroom to classroom, knocking on doors and asking if the occupants had been saved!


mimi

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Jillsifer's picture

Actually, they were lucky to get off with a stern warning. This parish is heavily involved with a TON of other churches in town and places ENORMOUS emphasis on teaching kids that "our truth" is not necessarily "THE truth" or "the ONLY truth." I like it--for us and for now, being Catholic is absolutely the right thing--but I really, REALLY like the way the leadership stresses that the Catholic church doesn't "own" the only path.


But it WOULD have been great for the "elders" to go tracting, especially around back at the convent!


And I STILL hope some Mormon kid does a Pope costume, or a nun or something.


 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

Mimi's picture

Also Intestines:  a combination of different pasta shapes, heavy on the spaghetti.  Cook, cool, oil (to keep it from clumping) and add red grapes or cherry tomatoes.  Put in bowl in feely box labeled "Intestines".  The grapes and cherrys stain fingers a nice blood red when squeezed!


mimi

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
AJ12754's picture

Do you take donations? -- I 'd pay to help you set up a scene that would raise the hairs on her neck and pop her eyeballs.


 

Cave obdurationem cordis

Jillsifer's picture

Hee, hee . . . well, I certainly take ideas!

 


 

Christmas is the season for kindling the fire of hospitality in the hall, the genial flame of charity in the heart.

-- Washington Irving

knittermom's picture

Hi, fellow homeschooler! I homeschool because my eldest son would never fit in a school setting, either academically or socially (he's an eight year old nerdly absent-minded professor). Oddly enough, my extremely social 6 year old (who I thought would be fine in school) turned out to have a very strong independent streak and likes to learn stuff on his own at his own insistence, although he does allow Mama to read him history (as long as I keep it heavy on the literature and folktales) and give him math projects and problems. Otherwise, life gets in the way of too much formal homeschooling, with all the field trips, parkdays and groups in which we participate (plus a new baby <g>).

Welcome to CT!

Kris

Gretchen's picture

You know, I think it would be a fascinating study for an Alzheimer's researcher to study home school mothers (and dads).  There is the study of the nuns who do not seem to AD prone and their "claim" is that they keep their minds very active. And everyone seems to agree that there is such good to come from "mind exercise".  When you talk about "readding history keeping it heavy, etc." just cries out to me--your mind (also) is heavy at work.  And my hat is off to you--and to school teachers.  It is a calling.

Gretchen

Gretchen
MadMom's picture

My hat is off to anyone who believes in educating children, whether their own or someone else's.  ITA about the parents who seem to find a cell phone conversation more interesting than their own child.  Everyone should treasure the time they have with the little ones.  Believe me, it is over long before you're ready.



Not One More Day!
Not One More Dime! Not One More Life! Not One More Lie!

End the Occupation of Iraq -- Bring the Troops Home Now!

And Take Care of Them When They Get Here!

Mimi's picture

Gretchen:  Interesting idea about AD and nuns!  As an educator, it has amazed me how prevalent AD is in the teaching profession.  I have heard everything from chalk dust causing AD to AD caused by compromised immune systems due to overexposure to germy children.


Could it be that nuns don't get AD because they don't have husbands and kids to take care of, therefore they aren't overworked and exhausted?  Just a theory ;)


(I went to Catholic School in the '60s, before AD became well known.  We had quite a few retired nuns who would substitute for classroom nuns.  They were walking textbooks for AD!)


mimi

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Gretchen's picture

PLEASE. Don't perpetuate really bad  ideas about AD.  The truth IS  if you live long enough, you will get Alzheimer's.
The nun's result lead to further research about using your faculties.  I can't quote it here, but it really is a case of "use it or lose it" ,


Your statement about "before Alzheimer's Disease was well known" is the old thing about "senility".  AD has always been with us--it has just always been called "senility".


AD is not caused by anything--or as far as is known. It has a genetic carrier. I don't want to go further but    IF you live LONG enough you WILL get AD.  Therefore we should all be aware of the needs of long term care for us or others.


Gretchen
Gretchen
shywoodlandcreature's picture

The truth IS  if you live long enough, you will get Alzheimer's.


Amen! I can only add to that that Alzheimer's might be the single cruelest disease we know. I've seen it from a few different perspectives, and can say from my observations that this is the most appallingly democratic of all diseases. As far as I know, there are no predictors.






"...very little has ever been accomplished by complacent people." Billmon


http://costofwar.com/

Gretchen's picture

Yes, there are genetic markers that have been identified.  Work was done at Duke.

Gretchen

Gretchen
knittermom's picture

Thank you for your kind words, Gretchen, I appreciate it. I am definitely exercising my mind learning my history all over again, not to mention researching all the topics and subjects I (too ambitiously, maybe) try to cover, especially since I don't use a curriculum (or a school in a box) but try to tweak everything to suit my boys.

My hat is off to all the teachers out there too; while some homeschoolers are very anti-school, I believe formal schooling suits some kids very well. I just wish our teachers - especially here in California - were given the freedom to teach not to "the test" but rather to pique their student's passion for learning.

Kris...Holding a sick (not too bad), cranky, but thankfully sleepy baby all day today; lots of computer work getting done!

AJ12754's picture

Thank you for the nice welcome -- looks like we have quite a bit in common, homeschooling, cooking and I also love knitting, although I am a rank beginner in the latter.  I have loved homeschooling -- as much for myself as for the kids -- I learned a ton along the way and have developed a passion for history, an actual understanding of how planes manage to stay in the air and how boats float and I now "get" and like algebra -- something that would have floored my 9th grade teacher.  Plus I got to learn a dead language.  And my daughter is now on grade level with all her work.  All-in-all, a pretty good package deal.


By the way -- your older son sounds like my nephew -- and those kinds of kids turn into very interesting adults!


Have you tried D'Aulaires version of the Greek myths with your boys? -- my daughters just fell in love with them, wonderful illustrations  -- we read them after dinner every night until we finished the entire book, then moved on to The Children's Homer (Padraic Colum's version) -- your sons might just love them.  Anyway -- enough unsolicited suggestions on my part.

Cave obdurationem cordis